A Week On The Big Snake

It’s time for a new book, and this one comes to you from Allie Castro, an author much like myself, but keener on the humiliation side of things. Not too harsh and all, but not afraid of guys touching guys in a curious way. Think Measured next To Her Ex or Size Curious Brat…

It’s the summer after grad school, and eight friends venture down the Big Snake River in a multi-day adventure to celebrate their freedom one last time before venturing off to their full-time careers. Eight people, four couples. One handsome and capable river guide showing them how to manage the Big Snake.

Three days in, and they’re having a blast. Things are going better than expected. It’s Will who orchestrated the trip, and he has a secret ulterior motive known to all the gang but one, his longtime girlfriend, Heather. Where the river bends north of Sudo, there’s a high rocky crag where he’ll get down on one knee and ask the love of his life to marry him, their best friends as witnesses.

But when some playful talk gets out of hand, and a weird and dirty challenge begins, an unexpected turn reveals a heavy, dangling truth about their handsome, bearded river guide. No one can get it out of their minds, especially Will. Resentment, shame, and jealousy roll in.

And when he lets it roll, it builds momentum; a crashing, banging boulder of humiliation headed his way, looking to obliterate his manhood…

222 thoughts on “A Week On The Big Snake

  1. Wow – man am I looking forward to this one, sounds like a perfect storm of organic humiliation – not only was he planning for this trip to be his proposal, and not only will anything going on between Heather and the River Guide happen with their friends knowing it, but their friends ALSO KNEW THIS WAS THE PROPOSAL TRIP.

    Very very curious to see how this plays out – I never even considered the possibility of these details when the brief concept was mentioned last week. Just goes to show how good KT/Allie is at not only the writing but the concept too. It’s inspiring/discouraging for other hopeful writers (I know I shouldn’t compare myself to people at the top of their game but it’s hard lol)!

    Obviously I have a whole bunch of questions but I’ll wait until the book is actually out.

    Wearing out my refresh button on this amazon page – will undoubtedly be back for more.

    1. Not to mention the conceit of the setting putting a gang of academics in a rustic setting where their relative skillsets places the the more physical guide in the high-status position.

  2. OMG this, “But when some playful talk gets out of hand, and a weird and dirty challenge begins, an unexpected turn …”

    I love these types of things so much, can’t wait to read what you mean, Allie!

    And like Glaucs said, I love the timing of this trip being the backdrop of anything that happens in the story.

      1. Oh – used to just say “An MMF Bisexual Cuckold Book” like you can see under the up next on the left of the page, but the pic on the blog post now says “Humiliated on the River” in the same spot instead.

        Not a big change I’m mostly just joking around about how much I’m refreshing that I’m noticing these things.

  3. Allie Castro… That brings some different images!

    I wonder if he still marries her? 🙂 I guess we’ll find out sometime today or tomorrow…

    1. Or… maybe not… maybe we won’t find out… such is the anticipation of a new release… it’s a mind game.

  4. KT – You remember that movie you pointed out to your readership that took place in the wilderness that had a cuckold-adjacent theme within it? You know, the one with the couple that gets lost and briefly stumbles on a stranger roaming the woods?

    Would that movie have at all inspired this writing? Random thought.

      1. When Playboy launched their channel and didn’t enter the reality gameshow realm, I was like really guys? They need pro perverts like us on staff. We’d earn high six-figures and get their name brand back on track…

    1. No, but when I was working on it I was thinking boy I hope no one thinks I’m ripping off that movie I mentioned on my own blog, ha ha. I wrote this mostly in 2016 but I just never committed to the guessing game they played. The book was just an outline but in the same setting and all and it was only recently I saw a path through the game scene that would seem believable.


    That was actually a much sweeter, gentler sexual encounter than I was anticipating (nor was I expecting Kyle the Conflict Counselor).

    Interesting that really it was the emotional infidelity after that encounter that seemed to instigate the traumatic rift.

    Definitely not the story I was expecting, but i found the emotional work of the resolution interesting to read – it’s so often something completely ignored.

    1. No spoilers here. We need to figure out a song, now. It was a good, quick read. Daria said, “It is about a couple finding themselves.”

      Great work, Allie!

  6. I’m trying to work out the best way to explain in detail how KT’s humiliation (a recurring concept in KT’s stories to be sure) really works for me.

    Basically, this is the perfect embodiment of what was talked about a week (?) ago about not intending to humiliate, and humiliating nonetheless. That guess-a-dick game was phenomenal, I had to go to the doctor’s this morning to check my blood pressure (I’m back to normal levels, fyi, all good). If I would have read that part of the story before I went there, my doctor would definitely wondered if I was going to have a heart attack. I wished that game would have lasted longer, honestly (though I don’t know how you could), it was so much fun to read. I love that Heather was put in a position to have to be honest, and any of her lines that were meant to deliver those humiliation digs were not situations she put herself in, it was part of the game, she was opening up in camp counselor tent (lol, I want to dig in to that moment too, later), or in the throes of passion. And above all, they fell out of her, it was natural and didn’t have intended malice.

    I’ll need to expand on this later, but it’s part of a meta-theme of the differences between male and female views on masculinity and its perceived importance to the female characters’ sexuality. I just wanted to put out a post to this that says, “I see you, KT, respect,” *taps chest* lol.

    1. Fucking love this movie. Love Paul Rudd.

      “I think Will met the real Will.”

      Also: can’t remember ever mentioning this here, but has anyone seen the movie The Overnight? Right up the appropriate alley, if you know what I’m saying. Adam Scott, Taylor Schilling, Jason Schwartzman… just watch it if you haven’t already seen it…

  7. Review submitted. It’s a five star review for this “new” and exciting author! It’s titled “Big Ten Inch (Record)”… just an FYI. Extra points if you can not look up, yet know who originally wrote this song! Hell, if we really knew each other, I’d get the “winner” an Amazon gift card! It’s that obscure.

    So, yeah… What a book, huh? Very fast read, very hot, and man is Kyle a snake. Playing on innocence as he did was brilliant yet completely mean.

    SPH… I understand it as a thing, but not emotionally. Hell, in my book, I’ve written and re-written many times about it. I’ve read a hell of a lot things about cuckolding, SPH, denial, etc., I get it all intellectually, but not emotionally. I mean, when we were reading this story, especially the last scenes, we looked at each other and shrugged. No way could either of us in the real world say those things to another person, but man they sure do read good. They’re easy to write, too. It’s kind of like a guilty pleasure. The thing is making it sound real and organic. In this story, Heather finds out just how to do it and takes to it like a fish being put back in the lake after being caught! As a note, we’ve always liked the name “Heather”.

    So what if Heather goes a little insane? She knows what she reeeealllly likes but man does she put the screws to Will. Their friends? Well, Will and Heather are an island now. 🙂 It remains to be seen how they handle their future. Will has got it bad!

    1. Thank you!

      Did not have to look that up. Big fan of classic Aerosmith. And in fact, a month ago I was cruising around a rural dollar store and the owners saw fit to have this playing on the sound system. I was looking around, like, are you seriously playing this? Ha, ha.

      Fun fact: Steven Tyler may be the namesake of this song. Apparently legendary, size-wise.

      I find the sph fun to write. Like, I loved my first real book, with Pete and Jess, but I’m not sure the sph stuff flew there. But, man, I loved that book. Didn’t feel like doing it all the time, like especially to good old Geoff. But I do like the female domination associated with it. Gets the fingers flying…

      1. KT, KT, KT! What are we going to do with you? Look it up, now. I looked at the album (Toys in the Attic)… Fred Weismantel. Seriously. I re-looked at the record just now, then looked it up.

        Classic Aerosmith, eh? How about Train Kept A Rollin’… Favorite part of that song, the live part.. Get Your Wings.

        I don’t know about Steven Tyler… Wanna trip? My Dad had a Journey album, the only one. Infinity, I think. There’s a picture of the keyboard player… um, yeah, showing a lot.

        And, you’re welcome, KT. Allie did a great job!

      2. Post a photo link to this keyboard player, please, ha ha.

        And, shit, did I just culturally assume Big Ten Inch was Aerosmith/? Shoot, I’m not really an Aerosmith fan even—and now some googling has shown me something way more up my alley: Bull Moose Jackson. Now this guy is my jam. I’ll have to look more closely at Fred Weismantel…

      3. You know…You do great scenes. They’re vivid. The sph stuff was really well done. I mean, in contrast to the “build-up” Will got from Kyle. It’s amazing… I was thinking the whole time, “You’re buying this shit, Will?” He was sold before he ever left the tent. This is how you make a reader invest in a character or scene. Perfectly done.

      4. I mean, really. How do you miss something that blatent? Oh, well. There’s something to be said for growers everywhere!

  8. It’s interesting to me, it feels like the softer, superficially inclusive sexual encounter (especially with the constant checking in on Will’s headspace) is far less humiliating than Will’s abandonment later, which gets glossed over in terms of detail. I feel like it has to do with consent and betrayal – manipulated or not, Will agrees to the threeway.

    1. I’m not sure I completely buy Heather’s explanation upon her return. She seems honest, but since we don’t see her interactions with Kyle after Will leaves I still have doubts. Perhaps it was Kyle who got tired of her and left, and forced her to confront the fact she needed to deal with Will.

      The Kyle we see doesn’t seem like a guy who was trying to steal Heather. He’s definitely a manipulator, but he doesn’t seem like he’s trying to ace Will out. Even at the end he’s not pushing Heather to dump Will…it’s all her idea. He doesn’t say no, cause it’s a chance to have sex with a beautiful woman, but I don’t think he’s looking to be with her beyond that.

      I feel like this is something he’s probably done before, with others…get a few days of hot sex and humiliation in cuckolding a boyfriend/husband, then moving on with his life.

      Will seems to believe her, or at least put it out of his mind and just be happy she did ultimately come back to him. I couldn’t do that, it would gnaw at me until I knew for sure. Maybe it will with him as well if we got future chapters.

      One thing is certain…they will need to find new friends. No way the others are ever going to understand this, their brains aren’t wired to accept it.

      1. Y;know, I’m not even sure how much seems to Kyle get off on the humiliation aspect of it so much as just having sex with some hot woman – up until the point where he’s sure there’s a chance for him to get laid, he isn’t particularly sexually aggressive, nor does he push much humiliation talk during the sex itself. He at first abstains from the dick talk and gets roped into the game by others. Basically the only response we get from him to Heather choosing him over Will the day after sex is Kyle grimacing. Seems like the he’s bearing with that humiliation of Will to get more sex.

        Obviously we don’t check in on Kyle’s headspace, so he’s a bit of a cypher and we don’t know to what degree he’s bullshitting. A lot of his talk leading up to and during the sexual encounter is about getting constant approval, consent, and emotional buy-in from everyone present. From a cynical point of view this is him framing things so having sex with him isn’t a betrayal to anyone, allowing Heather to give herself permission to act on her desires by literally having Will giver her permission.

        And it’s important to note that Will actually wants all of it to happen! We get that info direct from his brain!

        It’s clear that Kyle’s motivation is sex, but as presented he could easily have been a manipulator or a dumb, horned-up sex positive dude, depending to what degree his statements can be taken at face value. We aren’t given too much to indicate he’s definitely being deceitful.

    1. It does, doesn’t it? I think it’s cool as all get out! That we all get along and don’t rip each other is the icing on that cake!

  9. A Fantasy Well Executed

    I think it’s fair to say that even though we can all point to counterfactuals when I say that the cuckold/humiliation fantasy doesn’t really ring true to real life, it’s still a rarity to the point where it feels fictional when it’s depicted. Maybe that isn’t fair to say especially to others who have truly lived it in some sense, but at least for this reader, I feel as though the lion’s share of writing within this niche genre is laced in male fantasy to such a degree that it distorts reality. As someone who wants his fiction to resemble a slightly extraordinary real world, but also has male fantasies, I constantly put myself in the position of reading what I want to read, but feeling unmoved or sometimes guilty in an author’s overindulgences in this very specific way of world building. I don’t know, there must be a faction within the cuckold/hotwife/cheating dark romance lovers that adds the caveat, “but don’t forget what you know is true about the world.”

    What I love about the Morrison/Haze/Castro trinity is they know what this male fantasy is. They embrace it, and pander to it. KT said herself, she knows what to write, she knows what we like. But she doesn’t let it take her down a rabbit hole world that no one but a select few likeminded diehards could get behind. The result is an exponentially more powerful demonstration of what makes the genre so beloved. The world moves with or with your fantasy, and when she writes a story about a fantasy she somehow accomplishes this feeling of, “Oh, did I do exactly what you wanted to turn you on? Sorry, didn’t mean to,” with an astonishing level of credibility.

    I think this is personified in the Heather and Will discussion in the tent right after guess-a-dick was done. Will is distraught (made some excellent points and also was a complete whiner, but that’s for another time, lol) about a perceived manhood assault by his girlfriend, which is based on a preconception about male worth and feeling threatened that his status was diminished as a result of how his girlfriend reacted in front of his friends. On the other hand, Heather cannot understand how he could feel this way, it doesn’t matter to her, to the point where everything about this game that she’s playing is a joke, including how gargantuan Kyle’s penis is. In this moment, Will is necessary to help outline the backdrop that helps encapsulate this male fantasy (i.e. the sph, feelings of jealousy, etc.), while Heather is the indifferent world, maybe a little more personable than that because she cares about her boyfriend, but she embodies the truth that penis size doesn’t matter. More accurately though, penis size doesn’t matter, until it does matter.

    But that’s another discussion too, how Heather probably wouldn’t make a big deal about penis size until Will made it a big deal and she starts to care about penis size by association with things she actually likes. Like a guy who can lead others with care for them, an excellent body, nice eyes, and, oh yeah, not whining like a little bitch that his penis is smaller than someone else even though the person whose opinion he should care about doesn’t care about that.

    But anyways!

    Like has been said though, they are writing a book about cuckolding, so the way this keeps playing on male fantasy is that Heather keeps talking to Will about this the way that she wants to. Every opportunity to talk about how large Kyle is is taken, not because she was forced to, but sometimes just to finish a sentence that was left trailing, presumably because it doesn’t matter to her to the point where bringing it up has no value good or bad. But of course you add the fact that at the end of the day, yes, Heather does kind of get curious about how big he was, and then she finds out that really, REALLY does like how big he was, and yes you have a story in the cuckold genre.

    I just wish more authors would have the kind of creativity and understanding that this author has about what truly has a lasting impact on a reader. I wish this only so I don’t have to wait until another KT/Haze/Castro story comes around again.

    1. I think I should revise the phrase that helps embody the KT story persona to be more like, “Oh, did I do exactly what you wanted to turn you on? Sorry, didn’t mean to … I was just trying to tell you the story of these people I know.”

      1. And I can’t believe I missed this low hanging fruit as an example of what the Licorice gals do well with presenting male fantasy in a realistic world. Will isn’t even small! They do this a lot with many of their stories, the men who are the target of sph are often of average endowment, which makes connecting to the story much more relatable since presumably most people are within that middle range on the bell curve of male size. Relatable, maybe, but certainly more realistic of a scenario than “Man with wife who has uncommonly small dick likes being cucked by man who has uncommonly large dick.” The latter scenario feels fictional, the former does not as much.

    2. I love how you pinpoint what I actually intend! I really appreciate that. I don’t feel like I have to try and make things erotic and overplay my hand. I like the realism—or as close to it as i can get. This book sat on my hard drive unfinished for three years because the engagement of the game never felt real enough…

      1. You know for all my talk about realism/fantasy, wherever the guess-a-dick game fit on that continuum was really fun. Really good fun. And I feel like it came out plausibly, it helps when all the majority of characters are acknowledge how absurd it is but it took the stubbornness of some of their positions on being able to know their partner to help it along. It’s group conformity, you get enough people in the group to buy into anything and you might be able to convince the rest, even if they are the voice of reason in the story saying, “we’re doing what now?”

        Totally going off the realism grid, I never wanted the “What is this?” moment to end. Heather should have really made sure she was accurate about what she was feeling, and then kept going, lol. “What IS this?” Haha, I loved that part so much more than I probably should.

      2. Here’s a revision to the abomination of editing that I displayed above.

        “I feel (the guess-a-dick game) came out plausibly, it helps when the majority of the characters acknowledge how absurd it is, it just took the stubbornness of some of the characters’ positions on being able to know who their partner is to help it along.”

      3. I’d be willing to bet there’s a game show in Europe almost like “Guess Whose Tool”.

      4. David – you’re on fire on this page.

        KT – i love what you did. Maybe in the sequel when they get together on the backpacking trip in Greece (we know how you like your southern Europeans) Emma can be caught admitting, “They all come the same,” that’s when Adonis their guide says, “Well it’s a good thing I have all these measuring cups lying around, who’s first? Also, no one knows this yet but I’ll win this game.”

        I’m 12.

  10. Here’s what I think really happened in the tent when the argument started. Will overreacted big time. Being hurt is one thing but going on and on is another. It makes a person appear weak. Yes, Heather stressed a word. So what? It’s all about positioning and Allie positioned this scene perfectly. I agree with James about Will whining. He just couldn’t let it go. So, he was in the wrong position from the start. Simply laughing it off might have avoided what happened. We wouldn’t have had a story, but that’s the beauty of the way the scene was written: This reader and my wife saw how Will could have avoided this. It’s not a huge reveal, but hey, it’s real. 🙂

    1. DnD, TB,
      Good comments, agree with your assessments. Obviously, Allie read the Tommy-Sukie series and found that a lot of guys who get hung up on the size thing (1) are successful in the world in their own rights; (2) do not need to for physiological reasons; and (3) get off on the humiliation element of the three-way interaction.

      It is not always a given that the husband’s insecurities lead to the humiliation; think Pool Party or the “Taken” series. A lot of the other stories are really in the “it takes two (or three) to tango” vein.

      So, yes, none of this needed to happen. But, then again, do we really want to deprive a striving immigrant who has learned fluent American English of her authorial livelihood? Maybe this sort of thing is normal where Allie comes from.

      Another great read, kt.

      1. Ha ha, on the American English! My first books are actually written in British English and I had to push myself to Americanize them after Cherry Blossoms! I felt I could get away with it in CB because it took place in Canada…

      2. As much as I kid you about it, you do a great job Americanizing stuff. I do get a kick out of the differences, though. In the end, it doesn’t matter a bit. You ought to have a story set in Iceland. Figure those names out! 🙂

  11. Just finished Allie Castro’s book. Loved it!!! Hopefully the story continues or Allie has another work out soon!! Great job. Loved it

  12. News Report:

    “Today the President and First Lady will welcome Australian Prime Minister Scott Morrison and Lady Morrison for an official state visit to the United States.”

    kt: (1) does Scott know how you spend your spare time? (2) have you been misleading us about where you spend your time? (3) have you given any free books to the Donald or Melania? (4) did they enjoy them? and (5) you’re in my town now, wanna meet for a beer later?

      1. Australian’s don’t drink fosters anymore. We drink craft beers now. We’ve become all Indy.

      2. If this is bait, I’m taking it. If I’m going to drink beer, Oberon on tap is my favorite beer (damn shame it’s seasonal!). Bell’s rocks! We’re out of town and they have Octoberfest on tap. I may have one or more tonight. I might need it!

      3. Never had that… Looks like it’s either tequila or Octoberfest for me, tonight. Interesting time!

      4. Would you recommend Two Hearted Ale? Is it an IPA?

        It’s going to be an interesting night, that’s for sure!

      5. I like Labatt’s! I prefer bourbons, KT but I’m not picky.

        David – if you like IPA’s but dont want them to be so IPA-like then I would recommend Two Hearted. It doesnt have as much of the bitterness of an IPA but still has the spiciness, and it’s got a nice sweetness to it.

        I want to try the new double two hearted they just released but it hasn’t matriculated to my go-to beer store out east, I’d look around more if I cared. Hopefully Oktoberfest comes around, though!

      6. I’ve never had Labatt 50, or Redbreast 12yo. I had to look up Redbreast. Irish Whiskey, eh? I miss Keely. I do like the cover picture of Universe though, a lot!

        Wanna know what sucks? Watching NASCAR in a hotel room–and actually sipping tequila. It’s different.

      7. James, I’m not not much of a beer drinker. I can’t drink Guiness Stout–something about it triggers a really bad headache–like a migraine, I guess–about half way into a pint. Shame too, I like the taste. IPA’s generally don’t do it for me, either. I do like Corona with a lime wedge inside, kind of like a ritual beer. Squeeze the wedge into a the bottle, stuff the wedge in, tip it. To me, it’s like water. I’ll try Two Hearted. though. If I can find Labatt 50, I’ll try that, too. I’m pretty open-minded, I guess.

      8. Yep, I was born in Texas. Good memory, bro! My dad used to tell me that being a Texan (like him) gives us certain rights. I don’t remember what those rights are, but I do like Corona and lime. Like I wrote, it’s like water, but with a kick! The last time we were in Puerto Vallarta, I drank a lot of that stuff! 🙂 Oh, and tequila, of course. 🙂

      9. You know they make that, DnD, right? Water with a kick? I’m one of those people who drink hard seltzer.
        Stay hydrated, don’t feel bloated AND get drunk? Sign me up!

  13. I loved it… Hope to see more size comparison stuff and loved how Will got into Heather humiliating him. It was a fun little tale although I was kind of depressed at a certain point where Will left thinking he lost her.

  14. Seems to me kt’s oeuvre is full of size comparisons: Geoff/Rocco/Dino, Tommy/Dio,Pete/Tyler, Ben/Finn, hubby/Trust. Generally the cock size comparisons are a proxy for failure to man up in some critical way. Sometimes, though, girls just wanna have fun.

    The real elephant in the room (or is it the elephantine cock?) is the extended mm contact in this story. KT never really tells us who gets the most out of this encounter. But I suspect Kyle doesn’t mind because a lot of his tour groups are probably all male and he has learned to make do. Will clearly went with Kyle’s demands because he apparently likes the humiliation, thinks that Heather likes his humiliation, and probably believes that he will lose Heather without a willingness to undergo this treatment. Annie Lennox understood this all very well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qeMFqkcPYcg

      1. I think it’s an unfortunate reality of the industry that some readers will flip out and review bomb if they accidentally happen upon even a relatively incidental amount of man-on-man sexual contact.

  15. On the way home from holidays. 6 hour lay over in Auckland. Just kill me but gave me a chance to download on read the book. Kyle is a douche bag. He new exactly what he was doing from the beginning. Hope he loses his job.

    1. With regards to beers. Don’t know Bell’s. being drinking Hinano in French Polynesia. Wouldn’t recommend it although the Gold wasn’t too bad but hard to get.
      Back to the book. The 3 days in the hotel would have done me in especially when she said just for the day. Better to be alone and lonely in my mind but I’m not Will. Hope he continues to enjoy humiliation because the horse has bolted with Heather.

    2. You know, Kyle seems like the type that is so far up his own ass about going where passion takes him that he probably convinced himself there’s nothing wrong with what was happening. He never sought to belittle Will and take Heather from him. He did and should have known he was causing incredible harm, and that therefore still makes him a douchebag, but thinking about how he interacted with Will, I bet you if he ran into Will again he’d be all, “Hey, Will! How are you?” “How’s Heather?” *Will stares incredulously*

      1. A, agree TB. Certainly not Kyle’s first rodeo on the river. Biggest questions, addressable only by Allie, is whether and to what extent heather gets off on the humiliation, not just verbally but by actions as well.

      2. I do wonder if Allie is up to taking this to the next level with Will and Heather. Clearly, Allie has it in her wheelhouse. Though the question still remains, do they get married? If so, does Will assume the role of cuckold husband?

        Heather seemed to take to the verbal jabs really easily. Will enjoyed the hell out of it. I consider it light SPH and it’s clear it was intended as such, with Heather asking if she was doing it right.

        Wow, though… what a great, great weekend, capped by Ferrari taking a 1-2 in Singapore!

        Essere DnD!!!!!! Essere Ferrari!!!

      3. Allie may or may not be but kt certainly is. If the conclusion of this story calls for something really filthy, then I would call on Ms. Haze for the honours.

      4. Donk – I’m not so sure that Kyle has done this kind of thing before as a river guide, I’d be convinced if Allie said this is the first time he ever mixed business and pleasure. That said, I’m certain hes probably inserted himself into many people’s lives under the guise of ‘being a friend.’ I could have probably picked better words in that last sentence, but I’m keeping them.

      5. I’m inclined to agree with 2b – Kyle is somewhat reluctant to get involved in the dick talk/games in act one, only doing so when egged on by others. Also, his grimace the day after indicates to me that he’s not necessarily used to or comfortable with causing a rift like this.

        If he’s instigated a threesome with his tour group before I get the sense it would have been amicable.

      6. I’m going to give you guys a different perspective. I take Kyle’s reluctance to join in the fun in the tent as nothing but professional courtesy. The way he organized the game? Think about it. That said, the male to male stuff insided the tent? I don’t think that was Kyle’s first rodeo, either. Consider this: Both Heather and Will are submissive. Kyle saw that. He and Heather had a talk by the fire. By the fire is where the seeds were sewn. Then, once inside the ten, Kyle ignored Will’s desire for Kyle to leave by simply turning things on with Heather. The guy is a snake, he knew exactly what he was doing in every way.

        In reality? Reality is stranger than fiction. I don’t know if anything on OWH is real. I tend to think Verified Hotwives might have a tad bit more believability than many others. There are things written about in there that are really different. This story is fiction, but it could happen. I mean there are men who have been feminized. Men who get off on really losing their wives. Men who allow the wife’s boy-toy to move in with them. Men on bulls, bulls doing cucks, you name it, it’s there. What happened in this story could happen. It’d be hard to believe, but it could happen. There are stranger things out there.

      7. DnD – This is really interesting stuff, I stopped going on OHW mostly because I dont like the content enough to get over the old school message board look of the website.

        And I can be convinced of a lot of things about the Kyle character. It’s one of the Licorice girls’ (finally have a solid nickname for the three) MO’s, characters are too complex to feel 100% capable with nailing them down.

        I like Glauc’s take because I had the same read of Kyle’s behavior at the start of the story, trying to refrain from getting involved. Although the counter to that is when the guys called for a ringer, Kyle was rather quick to drop trou. Still, Kyle stayed on the edges until his name was called. I missed that part that Glauc talked about with Kyle cringing to the conflict he was involved in.

        In the other key moment to the story, when Heather and Will started fighting in round 2, Kyle intervened, because it was obvious they were fighting, everyone could hear them, and he knows that he was a source of the fighting. I believe that to be his central motivation, and not a guy seeing an opportunity to fuck. Now, the fact that his form of conflict resolution is exposure therapy is why he should never be a camp counselor, but he is not your conventional evil person. I think a case could be made that if the crew denied Kyle the opportunity to get involved in everything, Kyle would have been just as content.

      8. I’ll present another point of view on this:

        I don’t think Kyle had any intention of coming into their tent after he encouraged Heather to leave with Will, and only did so because they were fighting and everyone could hear it.

        In the tent chronology, Kyle doesn’t turn Heather on when Will wants him to leave – Will wants Kyle to leave, then Kyle does marriage counselor talk culminating in two pages prompting Heather to praise Will’s junk. Then, when Will is explicitly afraid that Kyle will leave and he doesn’t want Kyle to leave, Will prompts Heather to talk about Kyle’s dick, which leads to the evening getting physical. He doesn’t actively want to acknowledge it but he’s instinctually pushing the threesome more than anyone else in the tent.

        I think the sex was essentially spontaneous. Everyone present wanted it, even if none of them planned on it.

        Kyle asks for Will’s consent, verifies that Will is okay with what is happening, or asks Will about how he’s feeling no less than nineteen times throughout the story (that I noticed). He asks for Will’s consent in the two chapters before the actual sex starts four times.

        During the sex Kyle – “don’t forget Will” he says twice. Heather forgetting about Will and Kyle not giving a shit would’ve been the move of someone who had all they wanted and never cared about Will at all.

        Kyle recognizing that Heather and Will are submissive does not make him predatory. He’s pretty dumb/short-sighted maybe, but it doesn’t make him responsible for Heather’s choices.

        A lot of the things Kyle does and the way he’s described tend to indicate an honest portrayal. He specifically says things like “no shame,” his tone is described as soothing, “open and honest”. Spends quite a lot of time seeking to reconcile the two (leaving aside whether his methods were any good).

        Will pushes the humiliation angle more than anyone. Because that’s what he likes. He fixates on the things that get him heated to force Heather to talk about it more, which excites him in ways he has trouble dealing with.

        If KT were trying to write someone honestly trying to (possibly ineffectually) help this couple and then falling into a spontaneous three-way that all participants explicitly consent to, I’m not sure how it could be more effectively communicated than the passages as written, whereas if Kyle was meant to be an active manipulator or predator I would imagine there would be a few more hints than this, such as one or two comments, or even a look in Kyle’s face at some point.

        There seems to be a lot of negative feedback on Kyle, but Heather is the first one to progress sexual contact without consent, stroking Kyle explicitly without Will’s permission.

      9. Didn’t see 2b’s response before I posted sorry. Obviously there’s a lot of agreement. It’s hard to square master manipulator Kyle whose entire persona is a machiavellian act with the guy who probably just threw away his job (and more if it damages his chances of finding another job in the same industry) for a weekend of sex.

  16. Seems to me that Kyle loves to be be begged to place his unit where it can elicit the greatest scream. Finn did that too. Kyle also fell quite easily into the mm touch and humiliation of Will.

    Allie could well be holding back in order to make sure that kt keeps her around for the next book in the series.

    We still need that Dudley Do Right GIPHY with Inspector Fenwick. And remember, Nell actually loves the horse.

    1. For me Will is the problem, he should stop Kyle advance right from the beginning but the cuckold within him let the situation go forward.
      Like someone said Heather now will see her boyfriend fetish.

  17. TB, Glaucon, DnD,
    Interesting perspectives all. I tend to go with DnD on Kyle’s motivations. After all, didn’t kt’s star pupil in creative writing class, Allie Castro, just pull off a wicked triple pun. Hard to believe that was accidental. Big Snake indeed.

  18. Late to the conversation and not much to add to all already aired. Great read, highs and lows, fallible humans stumbling their way to an accommodation of desires. This new author writes as well as KT!! Just bothered a bit by the unsymmetrical ending where Heather is humbly, humbly prostrate before the triumphantly forgiving Will. Seems to me he is not the complete innocent rather the spark that ignited the incipient appetence in Heather. Should he then have been so devastated when he got burned by the flames? One wonders going forward whether he will over play his hand. I hope not but rather they restore a more balanced relationship even if different than their previous one. Yeah, I know they are not real but that’s KT.

  19. The action in the book is disturbing. I lost interest in KT’s writing altogether. Maybe there is some hope in Six Weeks continuation, but her intention of doing weird things to the couple is also disturbing. Bye, KT. I wish you liked men more.

      1. Anyway, my non-glib answer is that this story was probably the kindest one possible with the subtitle “Humiliated on the River” (I’m not sure what you were expecting reading a book with that subtitle): Nothing happens sexually that all parties haven’t consented to and ultimately Will and Heather reconcile (Frankly I was hoping for worse overall but I try not to just selfishly harp on what I want to read. KT/Allie want to write what they want to write).

        The worst part is Heather temporarily abandoning Will emotionally and we only really see that happen for about half a page before Will removes himself from the situation.

      2. and Finn, and Dio, and Maceo, and Truth, . . . . KT keeps telling us to man up! Hit the gym, push away from the chips and the tablet, buy a motorcycle, take up rock climbing, get good at something!

        GL, my like button does not work. I liked your glib answer better. All the gals have to cultivate their inner sluts and cheats to make this work, even the America’s Sweetheart, Sukie.

      3. I want to clear something up. We’re not looking for validation of our opinion nor are we sycophants. Our opinion should have no more value than any other opinion stated here, regardless of longevity or post count on this or any other forum. That said, thank you. 🙂

        I (David) would not have written what I wrote if we (my wife and I) did not believe it completely.

        It is our hope that such things do not affect KT in any way, but knowing that KT is only human, negative opinions and reviews, do hurt (as we’ve seen earlier here). It’s only normal for a recoil to occur, however we hope any recoil is short lived and that any other negativity–in any form or forum–does not cause KT to abort the communication here. KT’s participation is something we’ve come to embrace as unique and quite rare among authors of erotic material. It’s wonderful and KT’s humor shows through.

      4. DnD make(s) a good point here, and I hope KT/Allie/Becky doesn’t take to heart the inexplicable feedback of some readers clearly reading genres they don’t enjoy.

        I don’t purport to know the author’s intention in this but I recall KT awhile back talking about how some negative feedback affects them.

        I sincerely hope the characters/stories aren’t being softened as an attempt to mitigate these complaints. I am almost convinced most of those readers specifically seek out these stories out of a misguided identification with the protagonist in order to feel upset about it (parallel to Will pursuing a fight in part because he WANTS to feel humiliated/upset?).

        Anyway, hopefully this isn’t too transparent a plea for darker/meaner stories lol.

    1. Everyone has a right to their opinion.

      KT, Allie, Becky, write what you want to write. Don’t let anyone’s opinion, review, E-mail, or anything else sway you. The work Licorice Books produces is first class, well written, and completely from your muse. I’d challenge you to go even further, but both my wife and I are together in our feeling about artistic freedom. Make no mistake, YOU ARE AN ARTIST. The images you convey through your words are at best beautiful and at worse, intensely raw and eloquent.

      We’re fans. We’ll stay fans.

      David and Daria

      1. I agree, D&D. In my limited experience of this subset of fiction, I consider Snake an original tale sufficiently well written to convey an intense feeling of reality. It is indeed literature and much less disturbing than a book like “The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich” by Shirer. It is fiction…meant to rile the emotions…something KT does very well indeed.

  20. John – its funny, I’ve been telling the Licorice girls that they are big softies, i.e. they never go too extreme. If you can’t get behind this story then I think you should probably just not pick up this genre of story, especially as Glaucon points out, consent was all over the place. What’s disturbing about people liking what’s happening?

    She likes men plenty.

    Glaucs – I like your first response better, too.

  21. Late on this one too. Thought the story was well written, not my favorite story to read as it’s written from the boyfriend/ husbands perspective and thus it limits the sex.

    I also got around to catching up on Cayman and Obsessed. Of all the series in the works I’m really looking forward to the next installment of scream queens, reza, six week and separate schools. I’m curious on how the Keeley store will progress, and I think Obsessed could be really good if it would just focus on Finch’s relationship with Amy vs having 4 relationships going at once. I could probably live without another Cayman as I’m not sure I’m interested in any of those characters anymore.

  22. Best Foreplay/Non-purely sexual Moments in KT Stories

    So called because I don’t know a better title, but I want to pay some tribute to the genius that is the parts in KT stories that aren’t directly tied to sex but dance around it or are otherwise fun and different. To me, these are some of the hottest elements of good erotica, sometimes so good it’s all I can remember for huge chunks of stories. This is meant to be completionist, but I know that I will have inevitably missed some moments or maybe didn’t define them under whatever this list is. Let me know if I forgot a good one!

    CayPro – couch games. Sitting around with Mitch and Omar, Kate wants to play around, but not all the way. This is one of the hottest moments in the entire saga.

    Obsessed – Spa Day – I loved this moment between Atticus and Amy. Don’t forget your bandana, Amy.

    Learning Lessons – couch games part 2 – The moment when the three of Pete, Jess, and Tyler are sitting around the couch and Jess can’t keep her hands to herself even if the kids could wake up at any moment. Jess watching the blanket bounce with what she is doing underneath it? Stick out your tongue? Phew.

    Cherry Blossoms – Pull the truck over – After Montreal, Nia and Rocco can’t wait for next time, but Nia is too sore right now …

    Cherry Blossoms – Fire station – Nia has to confront Dino in case he had something to do with Stripper getting hurt, only she isn’t getting away that easy. That Fireman cot never saw hotter action, guaranteed.

    Taken While He Watches – Original story – The stripping scene was top notch here.

    Taken While He Watches – Hockey edition – Well, since I’m in the boys locker room and you’re all naked …

    Maggie – Edge-a-sketch (get it? heh) – Maggie deserves her own tribute on this list because there are so many moments that built sexual tension to an insane level (part of why I say that this series really ‘gets me’ more than any other KT story), but Maggie and Jay dealing with Jay’s problem was an instant hit.

    Maggie – Wedding Planning – Cole tormenting Maggie the whole day that the Becker’s are looking at Wedding venues and discussing what’s going to happen was excellent building to the moment Maggie learned about Cole intimately.

    Maggie – Strip Kombat – I mean, what can I say about this whole section of Secret Maggie? So much fun.

    Maggie – Edge-a-sketch part 2 – Maggie never sketched her Cole, nor does she really know how long he is, lol. This coupled with Maggie stripping down because, hey, she’s hot alright? Jumping on the bed and flashing a little bit, and finally, playing a game of “who can break first?” with Cole … really great.

    Maggie – Keely is no longer a fire crotch, she has proof. When Keely went spread eagle here, heart instantly skipped a beat. Totally unexpected and awesome.

    Separate Schools – Naked football – I love that Taylor was squirming in this moment, she had her sights on one thing and now it was going to be revealed!

    Watching Natalie Cheat – Renny just had to let it out, it was too straining, and the entire evening, Natalie was endlessly curious.

    Happy Endings – Massages, massages, massages – lots of happy endings before the trip to Africa, these all deserve a shout out, for sure, but …

    Happy Endings – Dio and Sukie talk about Africa – when Dio and Sukie go out on a date and talk about Africa in the car … that was one of my favorite moments in the series.

    Reza – Charlie WIld and Out – when Reza sent Jonny all the brief clips of what Charlie and Reza were doing, my favorite being Charlie on the dance floor!

    Reza – It’s ok, I want to – The first time Charlie and Tate did anything sexual was fireworks.

    Reza – Tate’s victory prize – When Charlie tended to her wounded warrior, nothing was going to happen that night, but still! And then the next morning … I be like dang.

    Chelsea Hates Libby – The hotel room – Finn wanted to prove Libby’s effect on him.

    Watching Natalie Again – Natalie couldn’t take it anymore, you think I let myself go Renny? Here you go, have a look!

    There, I think I covered all of them up ’til the guess-a-dick game, but I probably somehow forgot something, and I would love to be called out on it. My hope was to cover ground in KT stories that rarely gets covered in her blogs. I know we all probably like these things, but we focus on the main events most of the time and how those effect the story because they are the most important takeaways usually, but I sincerely doubt I would be here obsessing over KT’s stories if it weren’t for moments like the ones above. Thank you, KT for being so fucking creative.

    1. I’m realizing in my efforts to be playful and indirect, I might have been so vague as to make it unclear what the hell part of the books I’m even talking about, so my bad if it’s too confusing.

    2. Alright, I can get into this! My favourite parts (not comprehensive, just stand-outs) are already mostly not occurring mid-sex. Some of these will be retreads from our “favourite moments” discussed a while back, I think…

      Size Curious Brat – Moric openly flirting with Chloe in front of Matt (and everyone else for that matter).

      Cherry Blossoms – Geoff being floored by the size of the dildo at the sex store and Nia brushing it off, later talking about Rocco being even bigger.

      Taken/At the Combine – Bobby racing to find Coralee and running into people making mocking jokes about his wife getting Taken.

      Happy Endings – On the theme of humiliation – When Tommy shows up to Sukie’s book club, the very moment he mentions Dio, Sukie’s friends neighing and making jokes in front of Tommy about how big Dio is – up to this point an exciting game between husband, wife and unknowing third party becomes something Tommy’s losing control of – these women are making a joke that Tommy is in part the butt of. They probably think he doesn’t even know, which in some ways makes it even worse. The implicit message is pretty clear: “Your cute little wife is running her hands up and down your boss’s horse cock twice a week.” His immediate reaction says it all – he swallows his whisky the wrong way. He loses almost all his status in the scene, going from returning provider to the but of a joke about his comparative sexuality – his follow up question (amidst tension) elicits another horse joke from Amber. Even when he tries taking the strategy of being in on the joke to regain dignity/status, telling them he knows what they’re talking about, it doesn’t help much, leading to Amber stating that Sukie “can’t stop talking about it.”

      Chelsea Hates Libby – Usually in these stories we have the male protag imagining all of the things he’s dreading his wife/GF might be doing – here that devil on the shoulder is pulled out of his head and given form in Chelsea, who gives no quarter in imagining up what their respective spouses might be doing at any moment, relentlessly pushing a scenario of his wife’s eager sexual submission. The best part of this is when they both listen in one-way to Libby seeing Finn’s dick for the first time, and the audio ambiguity leaving enough room for interpretation for Chelsea to set Ben’s imagination on fire.

      1. I want to add one more – from the Maggie series. I find this one interesting because I’m not even sure if it’s intentional.

        Caveat: this relies on ultimately false and damaging cultural tropes on male and female relationships, but since these cheating/hotwife stories play so much with the ideals of toxic masculinity I think it’s fair game.

        Essentially, the little fact that even after everything Max lost to Cole, even the eventual love of his life Keely was Cole’s “sloppy seconds,” a nameless conquest he barely had to try to make, demeaningly referring to the hookup as “pussy patrol” and telling people “she was a screamer” as he boastfully shares nude pics to male friends.

  23. Importance of the prior relationship with the bull character?

    Question for the Licorice Gang (I am now dubbing us) – How much of an impact in the types of stories KT writes does the relationship between the bull and the main characters have on you? For example, did you heart beat a little faster getting Cole involved with Maggie, or was it a bigger deal when Kyle hooked up with Heather?

    I ask because I personally like the emotional baggage that comes with getting someone involved that there was already prior relationship on some level. But maybe for others, strangers are a bigger turn on, so maybe it’s worth discussing?

    1. Great prompts to wake up to, 2b! I’m going to address them both separately –

      For me personally, the relationship between the “bull” role and the protagonists is maybe the single most important thing. In some ways that’s the whole story.

      Some of the themes stressed most strongly in a lot of these situations (even in the consensual situations) is the humiliation and betrayal that male protagonist feels when the woman he loves is, to one degree or another, choosing another man over him.

      In my opinion, it’s a stronger and more powerful humiliation/betrayal when the wife/GF’s lust causes her to not only break sexual fidelity to her man but also emotional loyalty by, for example, cheating with someone her man has been victimized by and expects support against or emotional harbour from (or even just someone who shows disdain for husband/BF). It shows her placing her own sexual gratification completely over the emotional wants and needs of her husband/GF.

      My favourite example of this is in Size Curious Brat, where Chloe doesn’t put much consideration to Matt’s feelings towards his bullying stepbrother as she becomes openly “curious.”

      There’s other ways this can work too. In Watching Natalie Cheat, Nelson doesn’t have particular negative feelings towards Renny, but here it’s Natalie’s own dislike and fervently held beliefs/values that are overcome by her lust. This is equally hot! (It would be really interesting to see a situation that was both, but I digress).

      Anyway, I think this all plays into stories that are more about actual cheating than ultimately consensual encounters, but as I said before, even the consensual encounters strongly play with themes of betrayal, humiliation, seeing her with a “better” man, and I think the cheating scenarios and the darker betrayals are the natural endpoints of those thoughts. Of course, it’s all a spectrum.

    2. Glaucs – That is interesting, this is helping me think things through for myself! I see what you’re saying, so let me ask you a follow up, what hurts more? A boyfriend’s bully situation or a boyfriend’s friend situation?

      If I’m picking up what you’re laying down, I think you would probably weigh those the same in terms of the humiliation/betrayal elements, or maybe not. For me I am more affected by the boyfriend’s friend scenario, and even better if it’s a mutual friend between the bf and gf character. The bully (or boss scenario like Dio), has an impact for sure, but I think what moves the needle for me is when the strange dick is attached to someone who is a decent person, or at least a person who is better than an unadulterated asshole. Betraying a friend might, by default, make someone considered a less than good person obviously haha.

      1. It’s interesting – I have the opposite tastes from you if I understand you correctly. (WHY do you prefer it being a good person, I wonder?).

        This is obviously personal taste, but for me it’s easily boyfriend’s bully/rival/source of negative feeling over a friend or source of positive feeling by a country mile.

        It’s clear that there’s betrayal in both, but imo in the boyfriend’s friend scenario a larger portion of the betrayal is coming from the friend rather than the girlfriend, as the friend presumably shouldn’t be trying to steal your girlfriend. For me personally I can’t really eroticize the friend’s betrayal. Also not sure if this makes sense but it feels like the betrayal is (only slightly mitigated) because the BF presumably sees how good a guy his friend is. So there’s more understanding there? I’ll have to think on this one.

        I guess I shy away from romance in these kinds of stories and the boyfriend’s friend/kind “bull” is closer to the romance side of things which I think sort of runs a cold shower on it for me, just a bit.

        I put Dio more in the friend group to be honest, it’s too amicable a relationship for my evil ass.

      2. You know what? I think it’s because (as might be evident from my favourite scenes above) I do enjoy aspects of humiliation/mockery and opportunity for that is drastically reduced if the “bull” character actually gives a shit about the BF’s feelings.

      3. Especially if you’re looking for “organic” humiliation and not staged sex talk knowingly playing into a kink.

      4. In the scenario where the GF is with a man representing a source of negative feelings to the BF, BF is forced to associate those negative feelings – maybe this bully character makes him feel like less of a man, etc – with what was up to this point an emotional refuge for him, the woman he loves.

        That tainting and loss, that having that safety TAKEN, feels very primal to me. I think that’s why it resonates.

        I think it was Cherry Blossoms where the male protag envisioned Rocco as an ogre and he’s digging a moat around his “princess” all the while knowing the ogre can swim feels like a very primal subconscious representation of this.

      5. Glaucs – For me I think its because the threat of losing the female to this other guy is more tangible if the other guy’s only flaw is that he finds the FC so irresistible he’d even risk hurting a friendship. If the FCs in these stories are worth the salt, and KT always tries to make them like this, then, for me, its harder to really feel like the bull character is that menacing if he’s an all around asshole. Usually, the types of characters that KT creates, and I’m thankful for it, won’t want anything to do with bad people (at least in the long run).

        I guess the turn on for me is the FC finding a “keeper” other than the MC, and when that character is closer to home than the MC would have ever hoped, it hurts so good, lol. It’s much more challenging.

      6. As far as how humiliation fits into this. To me, I don’t need Cole to look at Max in the eyes and say “yeah, she likes that doesn’t she?” In fact that turns me off, it’s just too contrived. To me, if you’re getting what you want (like Cole finally getting to hook up with Maggie), what else in the world possibly matters? “Sorry Max, but who cares about what you’re doing? I’m busy!”

        Basically, what humiliation I do like is when Cole and Maggie got lost in their own connection to such an extent that nothing else around them matters. Maggie letting go of Max’s hand to grip onto Cole’s shoulders in Discovering Maggie is the type of thing I’m talking about. Humiliation by being ignored.

        To meander around to what is typically considered humiliation, as we’ve talked about before, it rings more powerful to me when “you’re so much bigger than my husband” yada yada is not meant to be directed at the MC, but is just a statement of fact in a moment of passion. If I can believe that the FC would not have meant to say that statement to be mean to the MC, but said it anyways by accident, then that moment gets a big thumbs up, lol.

      7. To be clear though, the only way that KT would be able to pull off the moment where Max is ignored with any grace is by having Maggie and Cole care so much about Max that they want him to be in the room, even despite the fact that there was something growing between them that they could not ignore or acknowledge out loud, particularly to Max. So yeah, they love Max because Cole is Max’s best friend, and Maggie is his fiance, but just not enough to remember him in EVERY moment that Cole and Maggie shared together, lol. And what hurts so much more is I could believe Cole and Max’s friendship and Maggie’s love to Max to be very tangible (others didn’t but I did). That was important to me.

        The only thing I wish KT would do in future stories (if she ever does something similar to Maggie) is build up the MC and Bull’s and especially (for me) the FC and Bull’s friendship ahead of actually crossing the line into being sexual. It raises the stakes for the big moment.

        I don’t want want to add more words KT’s word count, and everyone wants their own angle for KT to add more to, but that was something I wish happened in Maggie in hindsight. I think I’ve said this before, but then I’ve said all this stuff before in other forms. I’m really not a complex person lol.

      8. Oh I definitely don’t really care for the “he’s bigger than you talk” either – I prefer the more… diegetic I guess? humiliation. Like implicit humiliation, of the kind noted in various KT scenes above. Situations and factors that are humiliating, like Will’s girlfriend fucking the river guide and abandoning him in front of their friends on a trip they all knew he was going to propose to her on.

        Saying “he’s bigger” in sexual encounters rings a bit hollow because yeah, if she was totally overtaken by this new guy she wouldn’t really be addressing BF probably or thinking about him too much. It speaks to feeding the kink, of consciously deciding to include BF and playing to what he likes. If anything it’s less humiliating, because he’s being made a part of it in a way he enjoys.

      9. As for BF’s friend being more of a romantic threat, sure, but that’s not personally the stuff that works for me.

        It’s hotter for me if GF’s betrayal isn’t motivated at all by romantic interested but the torrid lust of a purely sexual affair. It’s a different kind of story sure, but it’s just hotter to me.

        It’s not extremely important to me what happens after the book as much as what happens during the book, to be honest. And a relationship can be just as shattered by cheating that doesn’t end in a new relationship as one that does if we’re talking “risk.”

        Fundamentally though we’re all just going to have our own particular hot buttons that work for us. I do get the feeling I’m a bit of a peripheral audience sometimes but I accept it haha.

  24. Wow. I don’t know where to post a reply to any of this, so I’m just doing this here.

    Emotional impact: I made no bones about being really pissed about the Cole/Maggie thing. I was pissed because reactions were so totally removed from the way I would react to actually losing my wife to someone else. I wanted Max to at least fight for Maggie in some tangible way. I couldn’t finish the series for about year after I started it (I think it was that long). I couldn’t stomach it. At the time, I was trying to understand the cuckold mentality at an intellectual level. It was difficult. I can understand it from an intellectual level, but I doubt I’ll ever understand it from an emotional level. I’ve read a shit pot about it, too. I still don’t like Cole or Maggie for what they did to Max, but I understand that Max needs it and I’m certain Keely is the right woman for Max, but emotionally, I don’t get how people get off on being humiliated or when married, being diminished.

    I supposed I transfer my own feelings on to the character being so treated and it bothers me. Not enough to stop reading these days, but I do find myself hoping for the hapless cuckold to grow a pair and stop things. Then again, it’s fiction, but I know it happens in reality and people get off on the humiliation. I do find that reading about cuckolding–when well done–is far more interesting than a “standard” hotwife story. Daria feels the same way.

    I find stories where the husband and wife tease each other to be far more intense, though. I suppose that’s why I really liked ‘Happy Endings’. That damn epilogue sticks with me today. Though the Ferrari scene, while hot as all get out, was also incredibly funny. Then there are three books KT didn’t write that really push my buttons: Training to Love it by Kenny Wright; Holly Hold On Tight by Parker Pascal; and Kim Crosses The Line by Arnica Butler (the last two are multi-part books where only one part has been released).

    I’ve made no bones in my thread on OHW (which is likely gone, now) that Daria sometimes teases me and that I enjoy hell out of it. In books where there’s teasing that doesn’t humiliate, I love it.

    The big dick thing. I get it completely. I’m married to a size queen. I’m not small by any standard (well above average), but Daria used to really get off on guys with really big dicks. It didn’t diminish me in that we both looked at as just something Daria enjoyed. There was teasing about it, but it never went to the point of humiliation–that would have been a huge turn off to me. It never made me feel as less of a man or that the guy between her legs was more of a man. Penis size isn’t something anyone can control. In reality, there are guys obsessed with size, probably more guys than women. I was hit up by a guy on OHW who asked me how it felt to be well endowed. I asked him how it felt to have blue eyes. For my wife it was just something she liked, like a really rich piece of cake. Daria’s real buttons don’t revolve around size, though. We got a refresher on that last weekend — no sex happened, but it was on the table.

    That “Real Man” trope that we’ve all read about, if well done, can be cool, but in way too many cases, it’s the whole story–that a man with a dick smaller than the wife’s lover is somehow less of a man based on that one factor. In many stories there are other factors that contribute to the “less of a man” thing. Stuff like cleaning-up the wife and bull, fluffing, etc., all those things happen in real life, but in real life I don’t think they make a man less than a man. In my view unless a man wants to or is compelled to become a woman and takes steps in that direction, he’s still a man. I have nothing against transexuals of either gender–it’s just who they are. Well done, it’s cool, but it’s so rare to find a story in those genres that is well done. We’ve given up trying.

    Point being this: KT’s books are really a cut above. I knew that when I got pissed at Max. It doesn’t matter what KT writes about, it’s done with creative thought, precision, and with such a touch that KT ropes readers in and immerses them. KT’s words mean things.

    Wow, this is long. 🙂

    1. Hmm, it’s a fine line between teasing and humiliation isn’t it? Maybe not, lol. I do like when KT’s FCs tease their SOs. I feel like the interaction between Geoff and Nia at the Sex Shop that Glaucs brought up again is a good example of well executed teasing. I personally rarely see malice in the moments when the FCs do that stuff, but it often is taken to be more humiliating by the MC. I may be colored too much by how Heather and Will interacted in this story, but I think it’s a microcosm of what KT has done in the past. Maybe its a bit more pronounced in this story.

      Does accidental humiliation ruin things for you, Dave? Things like I was talking about with the ‘you’re bigger than my husband’ thing that isn’t meant to be mean, but obviously offends the MC?

      And to the rest of the Licorice gang. How much do intentions matter? To me they matter a lot, if things are unintentional, it’s hard to get mad about them.

      1. Y’know, I read a lot about being “mad” at this character or another, but I don’t really get that – they’re fictional so I can’t feel any anger at them as people, really. Anyway I digress.

        I think the opposite almost, as referenced above – intentional humiliation is in a lot of ways LESS humiliating because I feel like the only reason the FC would be intentionally humiliating would be to play into kinks (almost always the MC’s). I’m hard-pressed to think of ANY realistic scenario in KT’s books or others’ where the FC humiliates the MC with malice.

        On the other hand, actions or statements that are unintentionally humiliating are worse/more powerful because it shows a disregard for the MC and their feelings.

      2. I absolutely agree with what you’re saying about ‘intentional humiliation,’ I think it shows a warped level of care for the MC in some ways. Lol, I was thinking of an example of how to explain this, and I had flash of Eeyore in Winnie the Pooh, ‘Thanks for noticing me.’ Now I can’t unthink Eeyore being a cuck.

        Intentionally cruel FC in KT stories – Becky in Obsessed and Jess sometimes in Learning Lessons, comes to mind.

      3. Sure, but I don’t see those as “with malice” as much as just playing into kinks that the MC is admittedly into.

      4. Oh ok, Jess was probably the only intentionally cruel humiliator then. Even in Pool Party the FC was not intending to be mean. Lovelace was, obviously.

      5. James, It’s not easy to humiliate me. During the cuckold experiment we did, I would usually just laugh at attempts to humiliate me. Stuff like while kissing or making out with another guy, having the servicer give me the check with Daria saying, “Give the check to my husband. No… him.” That shit cracked me up because it’s obvious stuff. It frustrated the hell out of Daria. One time, we went to a public beach with Daria demanding we both wear speedos. I told Daria it’s cool for me, but he’s going to get us arrested. A lady complained and we were asked to leave. I laughed my ass off! There are benefits in being a grower! SPH? My ass!

        About the bigger thing, it never offended me, in private, but Daria never said it during the act with another guy–unless we count the cuckold experiment, then I’d just laugh. Daria’s three regular (was four, but he dropped out) buddies were all chosen for a number of reasons, but one was that they were better endowed than me. I’m not small, but those guys were huge. Weeding out the idiots is another story. Never bothered me at all. Side note, I fail to understand why couples never vetted or thought to vet the way we did. It cut out ALL the flakes.

        So, I do like teasing. A lot! There’s a difference and you have to experience it done properly to know it’s not meant to hurt, rather it’s meant to inflame and entice. Daria does it perfectly. It’s rare, though. Like all things, if it were to happen all the time, it would become less exciting.

        Regarding your question about intensions, see above. 🙂 Not being easy to humiliate or getting off on it is but one reason why the cuckold experiment failed.

      6. There’s a reason I havent been supportive of your ‘Growers Unite’ movement, mine dont grow as big … you’re not on the team, lol. You’re an ally though.

        (Finally a message board with men talking about their penises!)

      7. Growers Untie movement? 🙂 Too funny, bro!

        There is something to be said about being deliberate!

        We have to think of something to bring KT out of hiding (of course, we hope and pray KT is well, happy, and just too busy).

      8. My secret theory is that if we fill this post with enough comments KT will have to make a new post.

      9. 2b – I was scrolling through some old comments and I found one by KT back when the story came out that even Jess is doing the humiliation “for Pete,” to keep him included. It’s interesting – the intentional humiliation in these books is always for the MC, never with malice.

      10. Glaucs – My exact memory of that story is foggy at this point but the key words in my inclusion of Jess was saying she was malicious and not intending to benefit Pete’s kink “at times.” Yes, it was for Pete at first, but towards the end, like in ‘New Year’s’ for instance, Jess was not doing anything other than aid her own enjoyment, and Pete was just trying to be included. The apex of this which clears it up is when she said to Pete who was distraught trying to understand what she was doing and she said, “I used to understand it, but I don’t know you anymore.” She then proceeded to continue with Tyler right in front of him.

        I’d say that’s malicious.

      11. usually I’ll go in for “death of the author” theory but I’ll pull quotes from KT’s July 5, 2016 comments for ease of reference (It’s also been a long time for me on LHW1):

        ” Jess is caught in a weird place right now where she believes her husband wants that humiliation, that suffering. And to some extent he does. He really does. She doesn’t know what’s too much. I feel like she is pushing the boundaries right now because she is afraid she really is falling in love with Tyler. Therefore she humiliates him so that he can be included. She’s in a way afraid not to humiliate him.”

        As for the continuing with Tyler right in front of Pete – that’s not malice, it’s indifference, like we discussed before (which to me is more painful/powerful because, as stated above, the humiliation is play that cares about MC’s kink while indifference says the FC doesn’t care about the MC’s feelings at all).

      12. I mean, I guess? There was a point in that book, earlier, where Pete says “I don’t want that hurt anymore” referring to humiliation, and Jess does what she does with Tyler which causes Pete’s humiliation and despair, anyways. I agree that maybe it’s not cut and dry cruelty, but it’s somewhere between just being drunk and getting her rocks off regardless of who is watching and not really caring about her husband and knowing what she’s doing is hurting him.

        I agree though, whatever happened above had a much more profound effect than outright “I’m going to insult you because I don’t respect you.” Because Jess does care about Pete. Caring matters a lot between the FC and MC.

        Maybe i’ll just say that that Jess and Pete were the closest to being humiliating while not really caring about hubby’s kink.

  25. “A Week on the Big Snake” Enjoyed the story the humiliation was short lived and Will gets the girl in the end. The MM parts are pretty tame and all in all add to the complexity of Heather’s and Will’s experience. Kyle is a cool, careful bull. He does this by being non threatening smoothing the way for Heather and Will exploration. Heather’s running off with Kyle temporarily is akin to her being on a drunken binge of sexual nature. The worst thing is this all was exposed to their group of friends. We all have kinks that we keep to ourselves. To have their cuckold adventure outed to their friends is horrible how will this couple ever face their friends again. A quote from davidndaria “Well, Will and Heather are an island now.” This is a very good description of their situation. How do you hangout with the guys or gals knowing what they know? Humiliation to the max!

    Only one point, the author slipped up in referring to Heather as his wife vs. girlfriend. I was using my Kindle text to voice driving home so I can’t give the page location. But all in all I would like to encourage the author to continue in the effort. Donkatsu listed a link to a very interesting article that could come into play with other couple’s relationships. Heather and Will selected each other as partners before they became sexuality active and I don’t think Heather would have been on the “Pill” before she met Will. Well that’s all I have to say Good story!


    1. Ha! Donk – Make it a mom and pop shop where the wife asks for the man to prove he didn’t steal anything and you got yourself a KT story, haha.

      Hubby is cleaning the shelves while this is going on, of course.

  26. KT is probably fighting trying to find the time to breathe. In any case, we hope KT comes back recharged, happy, healthy and ready to blow us away!

  27. I’d rather be a shower than a grower to be honest. It’s like having gorgeous blue eyes but only showing them when you are aroused.

    1. We need to vote on something:

      Dick talk until KT comes back; or
      Stop the dick talk…

      I vote to stop, but I can be swayed! 🙂

      1. Oh I was dicking around, sorry if you thought i was being a prick. Talking about penises doesn’t make me go all cock-eyed. I can play a-schlong, as schlong as everyone isn’t going go all stiffy.

  28. But wait, you brought up Jess because you said she was doing it for Pete? I was trying to say that towards the end she stopped caring about his kink, isn’t that my point?

    1. So admittedly it’s pretty tricky to keep track of comments in this commenting system buuuut (since we don’t have much else to discuss lol)…

      This is my understanding of the conversation: We were discussing how “humiliating” an FC saying to an MC “this other guy’s soooooo much bigger than you” during sex actually is. In My September 30 comment I noted I felt that it’s actually not very humiliating really because the motive is actually to BENEFIT the MC, since that’s the MC’s acknowledged kink. This was discussed IN CONTRAST TO the FC simply abandoning or being indifferent to the MC, which we both felt was more powerfully painful anyway.

      The following comments I made were wholly spun off from an off-hand observation that, come to think of it, I don’t think these supposedly “humiliating” mid-sex comments are ever made with malice by the FC.

      In your response below you posited that Becky and Jess were intentionally cruel. I agreed they were “cruel” but really only performatively so because they were basically just doing it to play into the MC’s kinks. After I said that, you said Jess was the only intentionally cruel humiliator, to which I believed meant you felt she was being cruel and humiliating during sex not for the MC’s benefit.

      A couple days later I noticed KT’s old quote on Jess, that she was really only doing it as a desperate way to keep Pete involved, which was my original impression so I made that comment today.

      Fundamentally I thought this comment chain was simply about whether any FCs were into just plain humiliating the MC even if the MC was not into it IN CONTRAST TO simply abandoning/being indifferent to the MC, which as per my original comment was a different thing that in effect ended up being the most powerfully painful anyway.

      1. Devil is probably lost in the details, but I’m just saying my feelings on this moment is Jess was hurting Pete right to his face, knew she was doing it (at some level, I mean Pete is talking about fundamental things in the relationship, I just reviewed), knew he didn’t want her to do it, but continued with Tyler anyways.

        It’s not the standard ‘he’s so much better than you’ humiliation if that’s what you’re getting at, but I remember the attempted threesome in this book Jess was thinking in her head some insulting things about Pete, which when it came time to actually talking to him, delivers a lot more bitter intent in my opinion to the things she says. Then to continue with Tyler and not stop for a second to at least remove herself or Pete from the situation before still going with Tyler … I don’t know what to call that but it’s malice-adjacent.

      2. I’m just putting a bow on my thoughts on this moment. I think Jess’ utilization of humiliation was particularly damaging because Pete was mostly starting to hate it for one thing, but especially because Jess never really understood why Pete wanted it, presumably because she knew it sounded hurtful. So if Jess feels that way, and she humiliates Pete anyways, it feels less like shes doing for Pete and more like she is truly bashing him for having this weakness.

  29. Continuing on my discussion of having people close to the MC and FC be the bulls in stories, I just really enjoy when KT’ FCs become smitten over a man other than their SO. Not necessarily being overtly sexual, but noticeably hot and bothered by this other guy. For me, it’s hard to really buy a FC (who KT primarily writes about being a good person) would really be fanning themselves over pure, unquestionable assholes that show little sign of caring about anybody.

    I know it’s a kink to have guys be such independent rogue types. Types who, coincidentally all ride motorcycles. Hmm, hard to believe these guys are so independent if they all gravitate to the same things, what conformists, lol. You want to truly demonstrate you dont care? Ditch the English language and make your own, now THAT is independence! Only bootlickers try to communicate to each other in the same language! lol Can you tell I find the concept of rugged individualism to be stupid and self-refuting? Anyways, what was I talking about?

    My point is, I want to believe there is a real sustainable attraction between the FC and the Bull. I like the primal, animal lust that Glaucs describes too, borne of a guy who has the characteristics people who stereotype as ‘Alpha male,’ but without being too over the top and exceptional (except maybe in the crotch area, KT can take liberties there lol), and someone who knows you can’t be an asshole to everyone and truly survive.

    1. TB,
      The thing is, kt returns to the motorcycles and muscles because they work. Let’s face it, a lot of women find a guy who thinks he can defy the actuarial tables to be hawt.

      I have a bit of personal experience in that regard. Having graduated college at the height of the VN war with almost universal condemnation by students, especially the cool chicks, it was interesting to find 25 years later at a reunion, that the [heavily edited] story of how I acquired an 8″ scar on my chest was a lot more interesting to the assembled ladies than another recounting of how somebody had evaded the draft.

      1. No, no, I get that, just like I feel the instinct to puff up my chest a little when ever the subjective of the scar left on my oblique from a crazy night where I ended up in jail ever gets brought up, it’s fine. I’m just saying, isn’t the fact that your not an asshole and will actually treat women well something that keeps them around longer? If all you had is battle wounds and an aloof demeanor, we know women won’t stick around that beyond a brief flame. I want a sustainable flame, a guy worthy of KT’s ladies.

        And by the way, she can keep doing all the tropes and ‘bad boys’ I’m just talking about preferences.

      2. Actually, TB, they like it most when you don’t say anything and they bring it up. A great conversation starter at pool parties.

        You’re right, acting like and arschloch and dwelling on the era, as the draft dodgers are wont to do are two real turnoffs. What the ladies understand implicitly is that men have very few chances to really prove themselves. Until that moment comes a man does not truly know how he will respond. If you avoid that “opportunity” then you will never know; it shows.

      1. Yeah! It’s on I-96 just a bit west of Novi… Talk about stunned! When I saw it, I had to grab the phone! Damn shame the windows were tinted… when traffic let up I shot by. I wonder if it’s supposed to mean just Hot Wife? Probably so. I teasingly asked Daria if she wanted HOTWYFE for her car, but that’s a non-starter. Creepy Cops and Creeps. Still, man, what a message!

      1. I usually dont like to burden KT with obsessive behavior and let her live her life without constantly seeking her replies, but you guys have me wondering if I should be asking for her to drop a line.

        Blink twice if you’re alive, KT.

      2. KT is probably fine, just swamped with life. 😉 I just like teasing a bit. KT, no rush from our end, sincerely. I’ll keep the link to the photo active longer. 🙂

      3. Ah, you’re probably right. I’m just a worrier. I hope KT is taking care of KT.

      4. By the way, Glaucs, I was looking at my post and it read like I was saying you were demonstrating obsessive behavior … I meant my own.

      5. Ah, thanks for the clarification 2b – it’s hard to parse tone and intent on the internet sometimes!

  30. You guys have got me worried about kt as well. Previous silences were when she was trolled that time or when she is writing a surprise book. She just did snake river which was a new pen name as well so I don’t know. Do we seem a bit clingy because we’re worried? I don’t want her chained to this blog but perhaps a warning that there won’t be any updates for a couple of weeks would stop us worrying.

    1. Well, wow, the concern here is pretty darn touching. I am alive, but, yes, personal matters are taking their toll.

      I’m still writing, and sometimes it’s restorative to spend time with these characters in my head that feel like friends.

      A new book will be out soon, I swear. It looks like Separate School, though, as usual, who knows! . . . 

      Thank you all for expressing concern over my whereabouts, it really is amazing, and I definitely appreciate it.

  31. kt,
    Glad to hear you are well. Last night we were perusing through some vintage youtube oldies. Robert Plant would also be at risk for a false shoplifting charge:


    1. Nm, just chillin’, you?

      Had leftover slow cooker chilli and apple cidar donuts. Am I the only one that didnt know that sour cream is amazing with chilli?

      1. I’m just hanging out with my wife. Trying to write something that makes sense to her and I. So, I thought I’d ask what folks are doing.

        I know sour cream is great with a lot of things, but I’ve never had it with chili. Then again, I don’t eat really spicy chili, though. I imagine with spicy chili it really adds a lot of richness and depth and makes the heat smoother, but that’s just a guess.

        Friday night, we may or may not be glued to Netflix for the Breaking Bad movie… depends on some things. We’ll watch it eventually, though. It’s supposed to be about Jesse and what happened after he drove through the fence.

      2. Yep, I’ll post a link to the complete book on my dropbox when it’s done. It’ll be free and in PDF form.. maybe mobi, dunno yet. I have a problem making what I consider to be an original ending (My wife and I have never read anything like it) read as if it was real. I’ve gone round and round with it so many time that I think stepping back for a bit might be the thing to do.

        I will say a lot of the inspiration comes from KT’s Losing His Wife series, but the husband is not a cuckold. In fact to start the ending, through an odd series of events he becomes a “bull” (I’ve never really liked that word, but when writing this stuff…).

        I guess now we know the reason Better Call Saul hasn’t been continued for a bit.

      3. Oh, and what I do really like with chili is grated cheddar covering the top, then mixing it in. Dunno if that’s common, but I like it.

      4. That’s exciting, I cant wait to read it! Do you have teaser for us?

        And oh yeah, cheddar cheese and crackers were my usual go to. Now I do cheddar cheese, tortilla chips, and now sour cream and green onions. I love the fall.

      1. Glaucon,

        I hope your writing is going better than mine. 🙂


        I’ve said about enough about it, except I took a lot inspiration from KT’s work, Training to Love It, Kirsten McCurran’s work, CC Morian, and Max Sebastian to name a few. But, it’s the damn ending that is throwing me hard. I think there are a few parts in it that will have the more sensitive types in tears. Daria cried. I cried writing those scenes. Projecting into the future broke my heart. You’ll know why when it’s out.

        Oh, and KT, I’ve recommended Cherry Blossoms to CC Morian. We have to read it again. Books like Cherry Blossoms never grow old.

  32. It’s amazing to me that something in KT’s writing gets us hungry ‘Hotwife/Cheating Erotica’ fans so moved that we feel the need to write about it ourselves. I sent KT a couple (poorly conceived) chapters of fan-fiction based, one based on Cherry Blossoms and the other on Maggie, inspired by KT’s writing. The only thing of fiction I’d ever written in my adult life.

    For me, I mostly just didn’t realize how much I was living in KT’s universe, so much that when KT’s actual stories would leave us with cliffhangers, and I knew I would be in for another, totally appropriate but nonetheless excruciating, wait for the next part, I would start fantasizing so vividly about what was to come.

    Kudos to anyone who can create their own universe like KT can and their own story, I needed the depth of her vision to even fathom playing around with fiction.

  33. Oh this is fun, other books written by KT:

    “It’s Five O’Clock Somewhere”
    “Food Porn”
    “The Sexy Voices Inside My Head: A Guide to a Healthy Application of Schizophrenia”
    “How to Write Novels in One Month”

      1. Nope. Chelsea can’t cook shit. Finn’s the chef! Janey is a cook, Jess was too. Nia was not. Maggie no—they bought pizzas at Schroon (kids these days!) Was there a cook I’m not thinking of?

      2. What about Janey? She cooks! A blonde Katie Lee!

        KT Morrison: “Sex, Love, Sex, and Truffle Oil For The Fun Of It”

        KT Morrison: “IT: My Website, My Books, and My Love for ‘The Guess Who'”

      3. ok, ok, ok! Thanks for the correction. Wouldn’t you think that kt’s own website would not autocorrect her out of existence.

      4. What’s with this Guess Who stuff, ha ha? It’s freaking me out. I don’t feel like I’ve ever mentioned them. I have a close connection irl with one of the members.

      5. KT’s been busy:

        “The Law of Cuckold Attraction: Speaking Infidelity into Existence” KT’s Confessional detailing how she unconsciously convinced her friend to pull a Jess, Pete, and Tyler situation.

        “Everyone’s a Critic – An Author, Unhinged” KT’s real feelings about one star reviewers.

      6. She Lives!

        Why wouldn’t the Guess Who come to mind when a bunch of alter kokkers starts to discuss music.

        Disagree about Chelsea’s cooking; it’s not high cuisine but as Mick Dundee said “You can live on it, but it tastes like shit.”

      7. Wow! Now I feel a bit creepy for mentioning The Guess Who. I guess I’ll be trucking back to Saskatoon. Don’t feel bad at least you didn’t run into Albert Flasher while writing about an American Woman. You’re the New Mother Nature (brought you by… Patreon), all the while you Share The Land, Live at the Paramount! You’ll always Stand Tall!

        Seriously, KT. You rock.

      1. Man, that’s perfect Donkatsu! 🙂 Very Twin Peaks-ish!

        James–you rock! Those titles are great! 🙂

        New on Netflix: “A Week On A Big Steak”

        “A Silly Millimeter Longer–Humiliation on Lake Ontario”

      2. Na… that’s a cool song. Don’t worry about your fogey status, sir! Your band covering it is awesome!

      3. Ben’s getting back to his Grass Roots, stating his “Creed”. Perfect song for Ben (and Libby).

        Love that song! I think I’ve written before that we listen to 60’s on 6 on SiriusXM a lot.

        “Her wild-eyed innocence is just a game
        But just the same my head is spinnin’
        She’s got a way to keep me on her side
        It’s just a ride that’s never ending
        Tonight with me she’ll be so exciting
        I want her all for myself”

  34. Thanks, Dave.

    OT, Does anyone think that Carol can cook? Well, maybe she can heat up takeout. That’s not why we love her, though. Clearly, there are wicked depths there.

    1. That’s an interesting question. I was going to say no, but I bet her own mother taught her some skills. I think Carol grew up in a lower middle class HK family, a strict one, enough to make her hungry for success and armed with discipline. She can prob organize a good but simple dim sum. But currently wouldn’t be caught dead doing it.

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