The Maggie Finale, part 3

Sorry, everyone, I have been away for a few days and haven’t been able to engage here. I’ll be back shortly.

I see the last thread has got jammed up with comments, so let’s start a new one here.

Who wants to have some fun?
How about some of the deleted scenes? There’s stuff I wrote that never happened and I could post it here when I’m back at the office …

Other than that you can continue your awesome conversations in the comments below. I might be away, but I’ve read them all. I love those heartfelt letters! Love the music! There were a few comments that made me laugh so fucking hard too.

Back soon …

Talk about perverted directions … Not all ideas are great ideas. here are some notes I had around the time of Secret Maggie (I’ve included them copypasta, spelling warts and all). Ginger in these notes is Keely before she had a name. I just used Ginger so I knew who I was talking about. Hartley Westlake was a possible weird Eyes Wide Shut angle if I ever wanted to go that way. For a time I speculated about Prof. Carmichael, Westlake, and Martin being into weird shit together and Maggie getting drawn into it but it was too Paul Schrader. I have more notes elsewhere in a dozen Maggie scrivener files that I’ll try and locate, though some might be lost. Stay tuned.

her videotape leagl idemnity. I maggie becker, am engaging in surrpetitious covert and very dirty behavior but I am doing so because it is part of the experience. This is Fake cheating. I want to experience The excitment of cheating but I swea I am not really cheating. I love you Max. repeats I live you, max. I do. I really do. Very much.
Cole hasnt come, he drags laptop over, shows her what hes done. Mad but truned on. Wants to see what people are saying. Worried about Max not being there. Gives him a handjob onto his belly. On camera. Come on his belly. He wraps a tshirt around her face, gets her to lick it off. he has heart to heart. Says whow would you feel if during the next ten months I didnt date? Meh.
Want to watch me jerk off?
She laughs hard.
No, I dont want that.
maggie and max, conversation
Maggie conflicted about what to tell max. Should she tell him about the anal. Should she tell him about the pornhub channel.
did you do anything?
wants to be hnset but she lies. Enjoys the lie. Feels excited about it. Enjoying the thrill of cheating.
Maybe max is texting and she isnt responding. he ges to her dorm. then worried goes to Coles. he texts her and she says shes coming home from a bar or something but he sees her coming out of Samuelson. hShe says I ll maeet you in my room. he folllws her. imagines a limp, a tendrnss to her gait.
cole alludes to gift for the secret society, a plan
Maybe he doesnt want her to be with jay. Desnt like the idea. What does he think about learning that max watched jay and maggie. He thinks it weird. Wierder than when it was the threee of them in the secret society.
max and maggie sex, underwhelming but okay.
maggie runs into jays dad, maybve Jay’s dad is with hartley westlake? Too weird?
maggie and jay conversation
I did my drawings. I have two of you. I caught up with some other models. I’m done. Next time I draw you it will be for my own pleasure.
Wants to take her out but shes so busyand hes so busy
I think about you akl the time he said.
You do.
I think about your skin, uyour lips, the way you move.
maggie and jay sex
Maybe in the locker room shower.ndifference between him and Max.
dirty talk with Max, she’d like to sleep with a rofessor
starting to consider law school, maybe go away to harvard.
maybe she will find out her mother dabbled in art?
Maggie goes home to buy dress, in conservatory, gets yalkingto from dad, re:secutity footage missing. You know anythng about it? No.
Maggie will find out if antone is going to be at the cabin. What would she tell them. Some of her friends from school having a party for her. Mom is unsure.
maggi and max alone at cabin frst, she rejects him because she wanst to be horny when cole gets there.
maggie sees cole with ginger, whats she doing here, why’d he bring her?
ginger maggie cole and max hanging out, something fun. cold outside. they wull be inside. hot tub maybe but its been doen to death.
cole making out with ginger in front of maggie, mahgie hurt and jealous. maybe she runs off
max and ginger awkward but funny moment.
cole runs off to talk to maggie. I told you. whyd you bring your girlfriend? It hought. she s not my girlfriend. I didnt bring her for me. I brouhgt her for you. Shes yours. What do you men mine? Something every college girl should try. Get out fo here. Oh Im seriuous. no way cole. convinces her somehow.
maggie assering herself over ginger, muscling in. ginger is coy.
maggie goes down on cole, she joins in. ginger saying thigs like dont you just love his cock”? yeah. He has such a sexy big cock. cole eventually encourages ginger to kiss Maggie.
cole sets up trouble between max and maggie. wants ginger and max to fuck but it makes maggie so mad. ginger and cole make fun of her how its all for her, isnt she so selfish max?
daytime at cabin, do regular stuff, some drama emerges
ginger seduces maggie and she goes for it. max and cole watch. does maggie allude to them having to touch each other?
foursome, maggie allows max to be with ginger but it makes her bond with max weaker.
she encourages, with great and lustful intent, max to interact with cole in some way. Even cole is surpried how he feels about it. Now way kind of guy but hes so aroused he allows it to happen.
aftermath of max and cole being too inimate. strains their relationship. maggie feels guilt. they art ways here, head back to vermont. things are weird.
cole uploads to pornhub, secret society channel. hs maggie go throuhg it with him, reading comments. Compliments on Cole, yum and tes pleases. Some jokes about max’s penis, related to Cole’s

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  1. I never intended a bisexual relationship with max and Cole even in my most extreme pontification. It was more about Maggie's kink—having control over her boys and making them do things to each other all because she could (and it aroused her). In the end, any touching between Max and Cole was about care and compassion. Cole did it to enclose Max within the circle, make him part of the relationship—make him feel cared about. Kind of condescending in a way, in retrospect.

  2. No, wait—you're right. Part of determining that time frame was Maggie and Cole waiting out Max being settled so they could move on without him, make their union official. Yes, it was them setting Max on his feet so he would be all right. Man, how could I mess that up! That was the whole point—for the last book to be the antithesis of that song 'Operator.' That Maggie and Cole could never be happy together if it meant they hurt Max.Here's a question: How much, if any, guilt do you think Cole feels? Do you think he might have sleepless nights over what he did to his friend? Is there any chance his friendly antics (picking Max up and running into the ocean) are a sign of a guy going really far to get over the bad he knows he's done?

  3. Before I had Maggie in my head, who she was, I could picture a powerful professor (not in art, but psych or phil) dominating a sexually curious art student; walking her around naked on campus at night because, you know, 'art.'But I could never rectify a relationship between Carmichael and Maggie in my head—just an age thing for me. I didn't see Maggie being the type who could be attracted to a guy like that. Part of it is power dynamics, so while Prof is powerful, not on a scale to the powerful men she knows in her life; most specifically her own father. What Prof makes in a year her father might make in a week; and he has real, extensive 'influence.' Maggie comes from too wealthy a family to 'slum' it with a rich (relatively), successful, and influential Prof. His influence is limited; her father's is practically unlimited. That's why I saw her power-play in the young and sexualized version of her father (Cole).

  4. Early-morning response: He was coming on strong. Saying powerful loving things that she appreciated but couldn't realize in her experienced mind might be warning flags. They were complimentary, and he is a hot guy, so they excited her, but the truth was he had their 'relationship' in the red zone; moving way too fast.

  5. Well to be honest, I meant you demanded characters find a soft landing for Max for your own sake, but I love it when you tell me I'm right, 😊.I think it's hard to feel guilty when what happened was meant to happen. I think that alleviates Cole's guilt. I have to think the only times he felt guilt about the situation, were direct references to the circumstances that grew Maggie and Cole's relationship while neither of them wanted to acknowledge it was happening. For instance, I have to wonder if the way too fast conversation about where they would have the wedding (they already had a practice run …) might jog Cole's memory when he walked her down the aisle as a joke. Now hes doing the thing for real.Or wedding dress selection, how he became the man who was only allowed to see what she was packing underneath, until wedding day. Looking back at all the wedding planning events in this story is taken up so many levels of gut punch when knowing what would eventually happen between everyone.I'm sure he feels some guilt when he's around Max just in general, but it's probably long since been dampened with time and Maggie's (Max's too) mutual effort to not constantly bring up the elephant in the room of how they got to be where they are.

  6. LMAO at 'because you know 'art''.I really enjoyed reading your pontifications and might have beens.To be clear, I don't mind finding the Prof a love interest not that I really give a shit. Just around own age, like Carol!

  7. I wonder why Maggie went to Max's home after the breakup ?? That shows her love for him, but it quickly turns at the cottage..”I love you just as much as Cole” WRONG! If you were truly in love with Max, you wouldn't have feel in love with Cole. The BULL is always suppose to just be a play toy…

  8. kt, did any of the Asian-Euro art student depraved speculation wrt Maggie come from the exploits of the illustrious Ms. Sulkowicz at Columbia, aka the Mattress Girl? (, and daddy dynamics description is spot on for Maggie, and I think this is the key to Cole's power over her; it helps that he gets the sex right as well. Max could never be her daddy; she never was aching to please him and be accepted by him. What Cole did inevitably involves some degree of disparagement of the rival and loser, Max. That is always the case in these things. Cole is still at an age when he can feel a bit guilty about that. Later on, like Martin, he will simply accept the “prima nocta” or droit du seigneur as his due and not feel any remorse over plowing through the wives and girlfriends of his friends, colleagues, and subordinates. That's why we need Putin's niece to put Cole in his place.Martin and Carol accepted Max because they believed Maggie loved him and saw that he was smart and driven enough to lead Oxbow in the future. Cole, though intelligent and manipulative in a certain way, is not in that league and cannot be the lead guy at Oxbow. That's ok, though, because Max eventually engineers a liquidity crisis at Oxbow from his rival private equity firm and then steps in as the White Knight to save the company by purchasing Oxbow for its liabilities. He sends Tonya over to run the Oxbow subsidiary. Maggie goes with the winner and moves Tanya into the master BR, Cole goes to the spare bedroom. Martin and Carol to Max, even though they hate what he did in cratering Oxbow, and are extremely grateful that they did not have to explain the playroom in RI to prospective buyers as they were liquidating property.It's really too early for this nonsense, but some of it could be fun, n'est-ce pas?

  9. I think he does feel a level of guilt for what he did. You can simultaneously feel like you did the right thing for yourself, what you needed for your own happiness, while also feeling guilty about things you had to do to get there.I didn’t take the watch thing as him overcompensating though. I just think that’s their friendship, and now that they’re fully back to it he feels comfortable enough to do it. I suspect Cole is not all that wracked with guilt because he sees Max is happy with Keely. My guess is he’s not quite as perceptive as Maggie or Keely on the hard time Max was having around the wedding.

  10. KT I think you can almost look at everything Cole and Maggie do for Max as something of a mix between caring and condescension. I guess how good you feel about what they did depends on how much of each you see. I see much more caring, at least overtly, and mostly unintentional condescension. Others see it differently. What a complicated story.

  11. For me, I don’t think she knows at the point she goes to Max’s house that she wants to be with Cole over him. Or it’s that she’s still refusing to believe that truth. That realization hits her like a ton of bricks during her conversation with her brother and the revelations at the lodge. Even then I don’t think she truly wants to believe it.Maggie went to his house cause she still cares for Max, loves him, and didn’t want him hurting. And at that moment, in her mind, she was still telling herself they could fix it.

  12. Her “I love you as much as Cole” might be an example of what he talked about earlier in regards to overexplaining. She’s going overboard to convince herself of a truth as much as anyone else.But you can still feel love for someone and fall in love with someone else. You can also love someone and hurt them, do terrible things to them. Maggie never stops loving Max IMO.

  13. I wonder if we’re meant to see that condescension in some of Maggie’s narration, particularly about Keely. At various points she calls her “Cole’s Farmingham hand me down” and “a nice consolation prize for Max”..those are kind of harsh, whether intended or not.To be clear, I don’t think Maggie set up Max with Keely to get rid of him, but those kind of comments, much like her comment about “even Max” being able to make Keely scream, probably speak to some feelings she has bubbling below the surface. At a certain level she sees her and Cole as “winners” and Max and Keely as “runners up”…Gee that’s kind of harsh of me…but like I said, complicated story.

  14. @JL23 – agree entirely. Now, even Maggie is getting into the act of big footing/pussying Max with his love, Keely. We know how devious Max is and he will only get better at this as he rises at his hedge/PE firm. Oxbow better watch out. Tanya/Tonya can be played by Jennifer Lawrence now that she has some practice in that sort of role.

  15. JL – Thank you for pointing out that paragraph and it being from Maggie's perspective! Thank you KT for not making it blatantly obvious that each section is from whoever's perspective, but in that particular instance I did think I was reading from Max's perspective. I eventually must have realized that I was reading Maggie's in that section, but it didn't change that beginning part, in isolation.I think so much of what they did was dripping with condescension, not that it could really be avoided. We're talking about two alphas here, ha! The difference is as JL mentioned, the extent with which these two really cared about Max. They truly did, and to me it brings to mind what KT already said about 'cruelty' in breaking Max away from Maggie and Cole. It was going to be cruel no matter what they did, but I guess the condescension would have been dampened if they “ripped the band-aid.”It is complicated though because I am fully on-board with the truth that Cole and Maggie did help by throwing Max one hell of a bone with hooking him up with Keely, and taking the time to make Max comfortable with his diminished status in the relationship. I tried and failed to make that sound less insulting by referring to Keely in such terms, lol.

  16. She seemed like she did, because she told Max afterwards “I think he might be falling in love with me.” Was she willing to believe that that fact didn't matter enough?I'll await the “whenever I can get to it” response, lol!

  17. To clarify – was she willing to believe that that fact didn't matter enough to put an immediate stop to what was happening or tell Max they needed to put a stop to it. Afterall, she even admitted to herself she never wanted it to get serious between them. Was that realization influenced by Cole's eventual perspective on Jay and her's relationship?That question just expanded …

  18. She was flattered but didn't take it too serious. Hadn't been around long enough to get creeped out when someone moves too fast, even though you're in a relationship. She wasn't really into Jay, ever. he was fun and sexy, but it didn't feel very real. She hardly knew him. She never lamented his exit from her life really, after Cole made her push him out. But it def made jay mad.

  19. I think JL is spot on here. The only thing that I'll add, which doesn't really address what DW is asking, is I think spending time with the Milton's was a mixed bag of repenting her sins to two people that meant a lot to her development of what loving from a family can truly be (something she repeats when talking to Mr. Milton at Cole/Maggie's wedding reception), while also being something that added to the guilt. It would have been good if Maggie had her talk with her brother AFTER this trip, because now I wonder if it's because she got those good feels from Max's family that she was so willing to keep trying to make it work out at the lodge.Maybe Ken would have given her some better perspective as to what the take away should have been from her trip to Traverse City.

  20. Well, nah, probably not. Afterall, it isn't as if Maggie and Ken didn't talk after her trip home and Schroon Lake, where he couldn't provide her the perspective like, “Wait you are still sticking to you want both?”

  21. @JL23Those things were harsh, but she only thought them. Under the surface, Maggie is bubbling over with impatience, condescension, and all the other traits that you could use to describe Carol. She goes to art school, falls in love with Max and the idea of marrying Max, because she wants to break away from that. She'd had enough of that world and wanted to feel something new.When she has thoughts like the ones you mentioned, the condescending ones, the jealousy, the impatience, that's the Carol inside of her slowly pushing out that young, naive Maggie that doesn't view the world as black and white. Maggie might not have agreed with Carol's methods, but part of her, something deep inside, latched onto Carol. I think it slowly took over.People fell in love with Maggie because she WAS that girl that grew up in a home so controlling that she didn't get to LIVE, but she escaped it. Somehow, in her bedroom, she was able to get out of her own head and wonder about things outside of the influence of her parents and become a 'normal' person. That's amazing! On the can see the other Asian kids that she considered her friends at some point and how they weren't able to escape. Heads down, unable to keep eye contact. One word responses. That's the effect parents like Martin and Carol can have, but Maggie escaped it.In a way, you can view Max and Cole as antitheses for these causes. Max representing freedom from it, Cole representing accepting it and become it. Does that mean she chose wrong? Not really, Maggie just kind of fooled us all.

  22. This is a total tangential and rhetorical thought, but one of the hottest and informative lines of anything that was said by a character during the act was Keely saying, “Uh oh, I'm in trouble” when Maggie approached her in the honeymoon scene. That line beautifully communicated the foursome's relationship and their dynamics (that this was fun loving) while being funny despite the power that situation could have over a person. Dialogue (dirty and otherwise) is always such a major plus in every KT story.It's always unique and clever too!

  23. “Throwing Max a bone” in Keely is exactly what that was for Maggie and Cole. It sounds bad, but only because being in that situation at all wasn't good. There's nothing wrong with setting someone up with someone, but when it's to “show them” that he needs to move on, you have to get in the dirt to describe what's happening. That doesn't make the resulting relationship a bad thing though..I think Keely and Max are perfect for each other.And now — that other pillar of truth, that torch that only Max could carry — is forever out of reach to Maggie. It's fitting, I think.

  24. TBTH…that’s what makes it so complicated! I fully think hooking Max up with Keely was the best thing they could do. And that they mostly did it cause they loved him. But I am in touch with the idea that not all of their reasoning was altruistic.Its probably natural for Maggie to feel like she is the winner. She got the guy she wanted and kept the other one in her life. I just see a part, maybe not a conscious part, who probably likes the idea that she still has a hold on Max. Not enough to keep him pining, she wants him to move on with Keely. But I think a part of her still feels like she could get Max to chose her over Keely if that’s what she wanted. And I think deep down she likes that.Man, there I go thinking bad thoughts about Maggie again. I’m like Max at the wedding, 95% of me feels like everything went as it should and everyone was looking out for each other. But then I get hit with moments and say…wait a minute, maybe that wasn’t all that nice.

  25. ↑↑↑ this this this! That line cracked me up; thought it was perfect. Maggie isn't Carol but she is the boss. She needs Cole to act out his dominant thing every once in a while, but she's really the one who runs the show for all of them. I don't even think she knows she does. Does she?

  26. DW is hitting on a dark truth here. When Max bolted from the hotel room with Maggie's ring, his opinion on her relationship with Cole was out in the open for everyone to see.I think the others are right, I think she didn't want to lose Max yet and was confused about her love for Cole. But..still. The knowledge of what Max wanted makes what she did at the lodge (and by extension, the Milton's home) so selfish. She had to know that Max was terrified of her being in love with Cole. Just because she was confused doesn't give her the right to fuck with someone's mind like that.

  27. Not consciously, I don’t think she realizes it. I think she thinks she’s just helping everyone to what they need. But she’s 100% the boss, and the other 3 are well aware of it lol.

  28. I think she has to. At some point, you have to realize that everything you want seems to materialize in front of you. I loved that scene too. Shows the power dynamic but also shows that Keely doesn't really give a shit.

  29. Maybe, I just think she looks at it differently than “I’m in charge”….I think she’s come to terms with her inner “Carol” and what it can get her in certain parts of her life. But with certain people, the people who “matter the most,” she would probably cringe if those people saw any “Carol” in her. She feels like she can take Carol but also keep the kind loving Maggie we met at the beginning. Can she compartmentalize like that…perhaps.Also makes me wonder if Max had learned a little to be like that in his professional life. To succeed at a job like that, you sometimes need your own inner “Carol”…My guess is he’s very much become that at work.

  30. For Cole it was always going to be about maggie first… max maybe later. That maggie wanted to keep max “Included” was never really part of Coles plan. Several points along the way Cole tries to divide the two. While sexing her up on the fone with max, pushing the cheating but not cheating, poping her anal virginity. Sleeping (i do mean snuggle sleeping) with her even though max was in bed beside them. Culminating with the let him go maggie at twilight. That he did keep him included was just another device to get /keep maggie. He just got used to max being around. Because they were such good friends before made it easier to maintain a relationship. Keely was a great out for Cole. He wouldnt have sleeplesss nights but he may have some guilt about it when theres a tiff between them.Maggie may even use it as a tease “you should apologize cole after all you did steal his fiancee” I dont think we saw enough of max and coles relationship to make a proper call on this. If we had seen cole do something like the beach run at campus maybe we get a better picture of it.

  31. The more I think about it, the more I think him carrying Max into the ocean and other things like that are his way of showing he's sorry. All these characters, but Cole especially, are mostly dishonest on the surface. Or at least bury their feelings beneath layers of a socially acceptable facade. Their stupid grapple with honesty is why Max couldn't seem to tell Maggie what he needed to say, why Cole said “Not this fucking guy,” at the hotel, why Maggie couldn't let Max go, why Max went for the low blow about Cole only being attracted to the Becker's money, why Cole punched him in the gut for it. Why their apologies felt so weak. Why they needed to play that silly truth game. They fucking suck at honesty.I think those little things he does with Max is the human being inside of him reaching out, repenting for his actions in the only way he's capable of. It's only little things, though, and it only surfaces in situations that don't really matter because his layers are so thick. I wouldn't say it's “going really far” but maybe for him, in a weird, bizarro way, it kinda is. Kind of heart wrenching to think of it that way.

  32. Finally reread the last epilogue (for now?). It is certainly all there in the dialogue. Maggie definitely in charge of the crew. Well done, kt. Does not change my opinion of Cole, though.

  33. JL23, I don't think Max would go back to Maggie because she willed it. Max isn't like Maggie. Max is devoted and “fucking faithful.” Maggie can think that he will all she wants, but I think it's the other way around. I think she likes to think that Max could flip for her easily, makes those foursome moments when he goes down on her more special. But deep down she knows she lost him for good. Keely is her equal in most ways, but much better in ways that matter to Max. And the longer they spend together, the stronger their bond will be. Time isn't on Maggie's side in that regard. And when Martin comes over to consult with Cole or when they go to company events together and she has to see her parents very frequently, feel their pressure, she'll have to come to terms with her decision. Because decisions like that can't be undone.

  34. I don't know about you guys, and don't laugh too hard at this, but I got the impression that Maggie had achieved like a self-actualized state of sexual being, the sort that had completely let go of her ego and was just ready for anything. If she felt like being dominant (like with Keely) she turned that on, felt like being submissive (like with Cole) she went that route. It came across like Maggie was beyond power dynamics as permanent characteristics and was just comfortable sexually. A sexually experienced adult.

  35. Just curious KT…in this alternate universe where Keely is Ginger and she has some sexual interaction with Max at Farmingham, did you still expect them to end up together at the end? Or was none of that ever fully formed enough?I just wonder who Max could have ended up with then if not Keely…only other candidate might have been Jessie.

  36. Exit music for max as he walks away in misery. Dare ya to find the youtube..Paul clayton “so long”

  37. Thinking back to the French philosophers, I think they called it “polymorphous perversity.” Works for me. So, Cole has only the illusion of being the top dog?

  38. Hey KT, think we could get the poll results or is that strictly proprietary, lol!Are you surprised by the results or do you know your audience? Ha!

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