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Maggie Uncovered, Part 2

Well, we know from experience when these posts go too long they get garbled, so let’s move our conversation to a new post …

Before we get started, let’s look at some of my motivation for the Maggie series:

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209 replies on “Maggie Uncovered, Part 2”

I think most connect with this part of just Collins version of both sides.Rows and flows of angel hair And ice cream castles in the airAnd feather canyons everywhereI've looked at clouds that wayBut now they only block the sunThey rain and snow on everyoneSo many things I would have done But clouds got in my way. Like the papa fritas song ….music to make love by 😉Soo maglala huh…shes a cutie. So music I think about when mag is with cole…. ” hot magma” by lords of acid.For max hoobastank “the reason”For Maggie a bit off so but im going with vivaaldi. Concerto for lute.Dang that's weird even foe me but its what comes out.

So much to unpack there…I think KT is trying to occupy us while we wait for the last chapter with all these easter eggs to decipher…lol. Don't have the time now, but will try later. Thanks KT!

Well I've seen Love Story, and (spoiler alert) that is anything but a happy ending. Not sure if Maggie and Max qualify as star-crossed lovers, but maybe they're about to be (or are Maggie and Cole the star-crossed lovers?) Rules of Attraction is set on a fictitious liberal arts college, and there is a love triangle involved. But its Bret Easton Ellis, so everything is even more twisted and nuts than our Max/Maggie/Cole affair could ever be. Not sure how the scene from the Royal Tennebaums fits in…I've only seen parts of that movie.I'm not good at deciphering music lyrics, so I'll leave that to others.

The love.story angle.could be a story of opposites…instead of a sttict disapproving father we get a strict approving one.instead of a ill gf we get a sickly bf (of mind).Of.course it could just be KT pulling our collective chain and throwing random youtubes up …now that would be funny…lol. but I believe it's genuine.

Speaking of Love Story, I was thinking Maggie, Max, and Cole combined all have the traits of the Ryan O'Neil/Ali McGraw characters, but not perfectly aligned. Maggie is the free spirited artist like Ali's character, but she's not poor like her…quite the opposite. Her family is more like Ryan's character, who happens to be a Harvard Law student, like our man Cole plans to be. Max comes from the more modest background, at least I think he does, but Maggie's parents aren't dead set against him being with her.All of this is just my long winded way of saying I have no idea what any of it means. So maybe it is KT pulling our chain and having a little chuckle as we obsess…I wouldn't blame her lol.

Haven't seen the movie in ages (but I got Andy Williams singing the theme song on my spotify..under “sleep” music.) But I believe the character of Cole is played by tommy lee jones…ryans bestie.

I finished reading “Uncovering” the other night and was washed by a sadness for Max. He’s lived an incredible erotic fantasy and almost been subsumed by it. He’s lost control of it now and relied on his survival instincts. I’m hopeful, however, that KT will allow Max some insight that this is not the biggest mistake of his life and that he doesn’t bear the full weight of responsibility for this turn of events. (I know I’m speaking of these characters as if they are real, but they have a certain weight for me. And I like Max.) For all of Max’s encouragement of Maggie’s experimentation, she has been emotionally ready to be unfaithful to him from the opening of the first novella. (She had invited Jay to her dorm room; she was wearing Jay’s shirt; she was not forthcoming with Max about why he needed to leave.) While Max encouraged her to go further with Jay, she assuredly would have done so without Max’s encouragement—what her boyfriend witnessed from the closet were not the acts of a woman ready to draw a line. And while Max may have opened the door to her exploring, Maggie stepped through—and has both aggressively pushed the envelope on her own and succumbed to temptation. It would be great if KT provides Max the opportunity to make the confessions he intended to make before he entered the motel room. (Perhaps Max will be induced to answer Maggie’s mother’s call to the family home?) He won’t get past his own culpability without doing so, and Maggie might be forced to make a reckoning of her own in response. She has broken faith with Max; she has confessed to loving Cole in multiple inner monologues. At one point she thinks of Cole as the man for the grown-up Maggie—a thought full of terrible implications for any future marriage to Max. And when she wanted to celebrate her “win” with Jay’s father, she returned to Cole’s bed in the motel—no seeking out of Max, no waiting for Max, no apparent thought of her partner. Given those thoughts, I’m not sure I can see a way forward for Max and Maggie; she will always want the sexual thrills that Cole has shown her are possible.Cole, of course, is the straw that stirs this plot. If Max opened the door and Maggie walked through it, then Cole has been attempting to slam the door shut in Max’s face from at least the second book. Cole is jealous of Max, and has encouraged Maggie’s separation from her fiancé—the dorm room scene in “Uncovering” showed Cole at his most manipulative. Perhaps Maggie will come to understand Cole’s manipulation.Of course, there are loose threads that KT will certainly use to further agitate the waters. What’s up with Maggie’s brother’s duplicity? Have we heard the last of the video? What “win” does Maggie achieve in Professor Carmichael’s office? And, most of all, will Max see himself as worthy of more than Maggie? It might not make the greatest fiction if Max does, but I hope so.

Hi Tee Gee – Not sure if you've written on here before, but this was an excellent read. I appreciated the summary of what's in store for us (loose threads comment), I agree that I hope Max fights for Maggie, however futile it is!I feel like all I do is defend the indefensible. Cole is equal parts asshole and well-intentioned as far as I'm concerned. Is it your contention that he manipulated everything that happened during studying, or maybe you are saying he took advantage of a situation to his favor? I don't see manipulation in Maggie's dorm room. I see two people that really like each other failing miserably at keeping their hands off one another when they know they are without Max. I think the motivation to study was legitimate, and if Cole was trying to elicit sex during study rime he would not have made sure to announce he would be alone with her. Or did he think it was inevitable she would tell Max they studied together? I feel like that kind of conversation a guy like Cole would have with Max would be left for after the fact. “Hey, Maggie and I … uh … studied,” “really, what else happened?” “Nothing, she just needed help with the LSAT.” I believe that Maggie probably convinced herself she wants to study with Cole because of course he would be an excellent resource, which is true, and makes her mixed rationale for being alone with Cole that much more intriguing to think about.Cut to them actually studying, actually legitimately trying to get Maggie ready. They were flirting, they were always friendly flirting, but now it's been sexualized. They can act like they did before all they want, but they both know each other now, like THAT. That has been the problem from the beginning in my opinion. It's also why I don't understand why so many people think so poorly of Maggie and Cole's becoming an item. Maggie and Cole have a relationship too, it just never went sexual until Maggie took the plunge. They both have legitimate care for one another, and look compatible from the interactions in this story. They care about who each other are, deeply. Or at least as deeply as either of these characters are capable of caring. It's ignited something between them that is no longer containable. And, to me, makes perfect fucking sense.The best argument I've seen that Cole is a monster who is lying about how much he cares about Maggie is that there is one more novel left in the series, otherwise what tangible proof have we that Cole is playing Maggie along? I think he deceived Maggie at the Poirot to make Maggie think it was all Max who made that evening possible, which is huge, but I chalk that up as more of a wuss who doesn't want to accept responsibility, and not a manipulator. Again, so no one mistakes me for taking sides, no one is innocent in this story.I am curious why Max didn't get a buzz in his pocket that Maggie was headed back from Winslow Hall (wink, wink Nia!), it's a great discussion about not waiting for Max. She went right back to the Motel and more than anything that is hurtful, wanted to celebrate her victory first with Cole.I don't want to post another long diatribe, I think everyone knows my position on this, but I just can't ultimately get too angry at Maggie for doing what she's doing right now. Regardless of who started who down this path of relationships outside of her own, Max stuck around and fanned the flames. Sort of walked into the “play with fire, get burned” cliche …

Yeah you make interesting points about Maggie, particularly her inner dialogue and her actions with Cole. I concede her feelings for him may be real…I still think she's more blinded by lust, but her inner dialogue clearly indicates she perceives herself to be falling in love with Cole. And clearly he's her #1 focus right now, not Max.The thoughts on Jay and the beginning are also interesting. Perhaps Maggie would have cheated on Max anyway. Perhaps her “bad side” was just under the surface and looking for a slight push. And I also want to see Max make more of a Geoff turn in this last chapter. Find your happiness, your inner peace, away from Maggie. Doesn't have to be with another woman (but maybe there's a Krista waiting in the wings for him on campus?). I don't think begging Maggie to take him back will work. Maybe she will, but I doubt it changes the dynamic with Cole. Max has to let Maggie figure out which guy she feels stronger for now. If its Max, she'll work her way back to him and fight for him (like Nia did). If its Cole, well then it was always going to end in heartbreak for Max…better to find out now than later.

It doesn't tug on the erotic heartstrings as much, but JL, what you describe as Max's best move towards understanding what's best for his future is great! Letting Maggie decide between them is the best move. It's the move both of these men should have taken if they want to be exclusive with Maggie.For me, I'm less convinced Maggie would have plunged into sleeping around. Jay and her … i dont know, hot guy, naked, intent on getting with her … Lesser (wo)men have succumbed worse to temptation. And Max prodded it along further. Still, wearing Jay's shirt … ugh, who knows about Maggie! In the more serious case of Cole and Maggie, three years of playfully flirting with a man as hot as Cole and she did nothing to act on it. Maybe the resistance was razor thin, but damn did the line hold firm for a while! Considering how incredible the two have been, it is amazing the two never had awkward moment where they realized they might mean something to each other. I think that says a lot about Max's role in waking Maggie up. Maybe it would have happened years from now, but it hadnt for a long time!

Thanks, everyone, for commenting with such conviction on this last Maggie book. It was a doozy to write, took me three months, which is not normal for me. All the converging timelines and timezones, motivations, etc. It was a complicated story for sure. The only thing that got me through it was a revelation on the ending and an excitement on working toward it. I hope you all like it, but by the tone of these comments I imagine you will.Again, though, the fact that I have so many people passionate about characters in my erotic novels is, to me, an incredible thing. Thank you all for caring and contributing.As for the youtube videos: don't look for too much symbolism. I know I try to hide a lot of symbolism in things (and a lot of the time merely brag that I do, ha ha, wink 2B2H), but these videos are more of a wide angle look on the influences. Love Story is major for me. Don't think I didn't toy with the idea of some terminal retribution for Nia's badness, one which she would welcome in some tragic self-flagellation. A lot of is it a love for all things Northeastern and collegiate. And Ray Milland.The Christopher Mason video is just an idea of how hot I think Cole might be (in two more years after Farmingham). Lala (Lauren Tsai) is a vague idea of how I see Maggie. By the way, I know she's speaking Japanese in the video, I hope you don't think I'm so bigoted to conflate Asians that way—as far as I know, she's part-caucasian, part Chinese, from Singapore, but lives in Tokyo now. Royal Tennenbaums is for my love of Wes Anderson's ability to nail that aforementioned Yankee sensibility. And Rules Of Attraction because it suits me, and it accurately (the book, not the movie) pinpoints the college life I'm looking at for these folks. The college in RoA is fictitious but based on the same college as the fictitious Farmingham. I think the music speaks for itself, though Jackson Frank's Blues Runs the Game is a better song. Now look up Jackson C Frank if you feel like spending the afternoon on the couch crying into a pillow.Best to you all, you are awesome!

@Tee Gee welcome to The KT group therapy blog. Instead of repeating sentiments I'll just say ..what he said(2b2h) @2b2h Maybe a better way to describe Cole is not so much manipulating max and Maggie as positioning himself to take maximum advantage of opportunities with maggie..If someone is bonding with another they'd be likely to spend as much time with the object of their affections. Did he manipulate maybe ..does he have strong feelings for Maggie I believe so.@KT I'll speak for myself here but I bet everyone could jump on board this train…I love your characters you plots subplots. That your stories are error free and easy to read. What ever it is that inspires you I hope you get plenty of it.I also plan to listen to Jackson c Frank but I REFUSE to cry into my pillow..I only cry in my beer…🍺😁

KT…as I think I've said before your stories hit me in the gut in a way no one else's in the genre right now do…so thanks for writing them. They don't always make me feel good, but they make me feel.As someone who grew up in the Northeast, and went to a college quite similar to Farmingham…I guess I maybe relate to these people a bit. Definitely more to Max than Cole or even Maggie. I was the middle class kid on financial aid being exposed to a new world, around people who grew up much wealthier than me. But it was a wonderful 4 years I wouldn't change for the world. This story has me looking back on many of those memories…though I never experienced anything like we're seeing here. But it goes on, oh how it goes on. We may look prim and proper, but we have quite the deviant side at these bastions of liberal arts.

Hi, all… thanks for the welcome. I love that debate can begin here around fictional characters. I didn’t mean to cast too many aspersions on Cole’s feelings for Maggie—in fact, quite the opposite. I think Cole is more deeply in love with Maggie than even he realizes. (Although I do think he has some understanding of how hard he’s fallen.) But my reading is that he’s been manipulating Max and Maggie to open the door for himself—maybe playfully at first, but now more selfishly. Max makes cryptic comments during the Poirot rendezvous that suggest Cole encouraged Max to arrange the circumstances for Maggie to “cheat.” As other commentators noted, the dorm room encounter is not solely Cole’s responsibility—Maggie is obviously culpable, too, for their delicious sexy afternoon—and one would assume the climatic (pardon the pun) motel encounter was all Maggie. (And, at this point, let’s be clear: the passion between Cole and Maggie is extraordinary; their scenes are intensely erotic and—from the cuckold perspective—thrilling and heart-rending.) My issue with Cole is that—despite the honesty of his desire for Maggie—he’s still moving in on his “best friend’s” fiancé. As the story has evolved, Cole’s actions and comments suggest to me that Cole believes he’s more worthy of Maggie than Max is. Why? Because Cole would never have encouraged or even allowed Maggie to explore with other men. (Quite possibly, Cole also believes Maggie never would have had the desire to explore with others if he had been her partner—an argument of sexual superiority that Max would find hard to dispute.) In the final pages, Cole declares his true self when he tells Maggie to let go of the engagement ring; the stakes in that moment are fully obvious to him, and he’s telling Maggie to stay with him and let Max leave.The Max-Maggie-Cole triangle is the classic cuckold conundrum: I can’t bear to be without her, yet I can’t possibly be sexually good enough for her. KT books give life to this conundrum so well that the characters feel real. My angst with the Maggie series is that I can’t see a way back for Max: Maggie is in love with Cole, or at least overwhelmed by the sexual conflagration that Cole has lit within her. Max can’t compete with that, Maggie won’t be satisfied without it, and Cole clearly doesn’t know how to share.

Another fantastic read Tee! I will say this, that I now think that Cole might not think much of Max's sexual relationship with Maggie. I think he thinks he's just being openminded about their relationship and being shared with him is fine, but he knows he's a better lay than Max, and since he doesn't see Max as a threat to Maggie, he doesn't really care that he gets with her sometimes. It was only when his manhood was challenged by someone who is probably a threat in his eyes, Jay, that he gets territorial in the sense that he can't have Maggie spending time with someone other than him (and oh yeah, Max). I do agree that Cole is sort of moving into a territory that says that demands he is Maggie's main squeeze. If he was honest with himself, he'd probably consider Max to be Maggie's fluffer.New thought on Carol – I think it's possible that she is starting to move towards liking Cole territory. I had this thought early in the story, so it's probably coloring my beliefs now, but I believe this for a couple reasons, one is I'm sure he reminds her of Martin. Her mom wants Maggie to do everything that she thinks is right, probably right down to the type of man that is ideal, aspiring Harvard lawyer with roguish charm and blonde locks. All of a sudden the conversation makes sense – “Maggie, do you think it's a good idea to be married when you're at Harvard? I just want to make sure you know what you're doing.” Now she is communicating with Cole privately, talking to him about professional interests. She likes Cole. Does she do this with Max? We've been given no indication. I know these run counter to some of Edi's ending scenarios … :)A couple things that I wonder if people have caught based on the tenor of some conversations, and I think they're important points as it relates to how outraged we should be that Cole and Maggie hooked up in the dorm room. 1) Max expected Maggie to hook up with Cole. I think that's important because although Max was certainly hurt by it, as the great Bill Maher says about political correctness, we should not be allowed to be more offended than the actual person being hurt, and there seems to be a lot of outrage and screams of betrayal, but even Max knew what was going to happen when he was gone. Maybe the sense is that, “It still doesn't hurt any less.” I just think Max is almost in apathetic indifference territory when it comes to the concept of them hooking up, but seeing it hurts just the same.2) This is kind of related to how betrayed Max feels about Cole and Maggie – he understands why Maggie likes Cole. He knew that Maggie would develop feelings for him, and that certainly hurts, but that's why he is trying to sabotage everything. I guess I'm making a bizarre argument, but if Max thinks Maggie will develop feelings for Cole and knows she's going to have sex with him behind his back, can we really be so outraged FOR Max? I don't know, there's a point I'm trying to make somewhere in there.

Before I sound even more ridiculous than I might in some of your eyes, there's no disputing that Max is no longer in 'apathetic indifference territory' when it comes to Cole and Maggie hooking up, but earlier in the story, he kind of was.

Maybe what your trying to get at is max expected Cole and Maggie to hook up…so why buck it. His last “be good” was it a desperate plea for Maggie to get a grip. Or just an ambivalent statement as he knew he had no control and was indeed on his way to California to try and reclaim some of that control. If he says anything to Maggie like “stop screwing cole” than doesn't max become the bad guy to Maggie. Confusing and causing her to actually cheat on max like for reals this time. Does Maggie's infatuation with Cole work if max s isn't on board anymore? She seemed pretty upset by his departure. We can attach all the why's and what for's to it we want but she was upset he left in a huff. Whens the next book again?

Yeah, kinda. You get what I'm trying to say there. And yeah, how much conviction did he have behind, “be a good girl?” That's a good question. Like Cole said, “what's good mean?” No one knows what the fuck anyone is saying lol. Absolutely, now the lines are drawn and Maggie has to take a look at what's happening around her, what is going to happen now!?!*Covers eyes if KT answers John's rhetorical question*FYI – KT, on reading into symbolism in the youtube clips. Does this mean I should scrap my evidence board? I thought it was weird when all the dots were pointing to Dick Dastardly.

TB=TH… I think you're right about a lot of the Cole-Maggie-Max triangle, especially Max's fostering of their relationship. Their developing closeness–both sexual and romantically–fed Max's fantasy and that sustained him for a long time–and even by this book I'm not sure Max had fully drawn a line. He probably expected–and maybe wanted–Maggie and Cole to have sex, but he also didn't understand how deeply their affection now ran. Plus he was on his ill-fated mission to see Maggie's brother, with unrealistic expectations that the video would snap Maggie out of her exploration phase.

Without question, this is the most deeply layered “triangle” of any of KT's stories. And when you add the motivations of other people, and what they want to see, like Maggie's parents, or her brother, or her friend…its even more complicated. That's what makes this one fun to me. Its very hard to read what everyone really wants in this one.Its entirely possible, like you say, that Maggie's mom may be pushing Maggie toward Cole. But Ken and her friend are pushing her back to Max. What about her father? What does he want…I could see it going either way. This final chapter is gonna be a doozy. KT says we'll probably like it based on the comments, but of course, that has led me to speculate endlessly in my head as to what that means.

If tiger mom is pushing for Maggie and cole..doesnt that favor max as Maggie is in a rebel mode? Is that tiger moms plan ? Reverse psychology…of course Maggie's not new to her mom's tricks so she could be using reverse reverse psychology . But Carol is no fool and can see right through Maggie's subterfuge. Ahhh I lost count….what were we talking about? Bottom line for me and I'm making this commitment.Cole has feelings for Maggie..strong ones. I think he fell in love. one orgasm at a time. Max still loves Maggie. Maggie still loves max What got out of hand was the voyeurism, the domination, and being the “bad girl” for once in her life. This whole thing went south when Maggie misinterpreted max s intentions with the whole cuckold thing I think.max is a just a voyeur. Max didnt communicate with Maggie about it when he had the chances. Confirming to Maggie what she errantly thought max wanted. Which was for Her to spend more time boinking cole..the fact that she's always trying to include him in her sessions with Cole point to it. She did apologize when he grabbed the ring. She maybe realised at that last momment she had made an oopsy in his predicting his desires ..which gives me hope that they can reunite. There are some instances when Maggie does cheat on max with Cole like on the way back from breaking up with jay..she might be thinking she can tell max about it later and he'll get off on it.Cole on the other hand has discovered in Maggie a kindred spirit exceptionally willing to experiment with her sub side. He can talk her into just about anything..except dumping max.. I think that will be a much harder sell than let me fuck you in the ass. Although it didn't take much effort to get all up in there. There's too much history between max and Maggie to be dumped over a few weeks of indiscretion.Max will go to the family meeting mag or Cole will convince him he needs to be there. It'll be a mistake in my pov. He should avoid it like the plague and if confronted by Carol or big daddy .. He ahould lay it straight that he's not gonna be working for or be around either of them…not typical max behavior but its what he should do..hell score brownie points with Maggie is he does.

…go canoeing, skinny dipping and/or canoodling provided the waters clean enough ;)If you like that try scorpions “winds of change” or boys 2 men “it's so hard to say goodbye” To lighten things up i go to my strip music if you're feeling down try sexbomb by “lords of acid” o gor like 20 playlists .ballroom dancing , instrumentals, afore mentioned strip music, military stuff, old gob songs, rock, and 80s for a few. Makes my Bose minilink my favorite toy.

I'll join the “Depression Off” and contribute Perfume Genius entire 'Put your Back N 2 It' an album about a gay man's life. Ever want to feel awful for moving away? “Sister Song.” Ever been desperate for love “Take Me Home.” Seriously fuck this album.

I'll post this reply here because losing that sliver of space when replying to posts starts to add up, lol I love this blog. To John – I had this thought too about Maggie losing her appetite for Cole through Carol's interest in him. I've been torn with which of the characters has shown more acquiescence to Maggie's overly strict parents. The entire time Max is with Maggie 's family in Sharing Maggie he was doing the, 'just get through this weekend' thing anyone does when they are with demanding parents of a significant other. Cole on the other hand, had the freedom of being the person who got to tag along, obviously felt relaxed enough to jump right into being up for anything despite her parents' apparent power. That said, all Cole has done is say nice things about her mom and dad. Although, I guess humming 'Flight of the Valkyries' when Carol calls clearly demonstrates a recognition that she's a battle axe.At the time of Sharing Maggie I mentioned how Max (who said as much) had the unfortunate position of having all the pressure on him from her parents, so of course he looks like a stiff that Maggie could easily get annoyed with, and paired with Cole, makes Cole look like a laid-back awesome dude who gets to see the good side of her parents. If Carol starts putting the eggs in the Cole basket, I wonder how he'll do. Put Cole through the ringer that Max had to go through and see how well HE does. How much does Maggie see someone who's going to go with her as far away from her parents (short of traveling to Palo Alto) as possible. If she cares that much that is.I just had a thought about Maggie and all the baggage that she might be carrying. Does Maggie really want to do the “Harvard Lawyer” thing? Most authors who write a coming of age story would have their character realize they don't want to keep doing just what they're told and do something that makes them happy, but, as long as we're willing to make the claim that just by virtue of going that route in her life (law school), that she'll be falling into a trap of being just like her mother and it's a bad thing (which isn't necessarily true). Then maybe the bad ending is Maggie just falls in line with everything her parents want, right down to the man they want for her. I'm not sure who that might be though. Max is obedient and smart, Cole has charisma and I'm sure Mom sees potential in that. Hmm. I guess an also-bad-ending is actually Cole is perfect for helping sooth the damage done by Mom and Dad, and Maggie sees Max as not being helpful in taking her away from their stress. All he does is pay witness to anything he doesn't like instead of saying something … takes the easy route and waits until everyone's gone before saying, “they're mean aren't they?” although, what could he honestly say to her parents, really? Anyways … shit … Cole kind of does that too …I will never get untangled from a KT web, especially ones I may have just made up myself.John on Maggie's oopsy – I'm of two minds on that one. One thought is yeah I kind of agree that Maggie thinks all that she does with Cole is okay in Max's eyes, again she's only been given riddles masquerading as protest when it comes to what she exploration steps she's taken, and now that he has done the untouchable piece in this entire story, it's rock that holds everything firm, threatening their marriage, what is next for Maggie? That said, i think we all agree the game of exploring her sexuality with Cole is also a pretense, she likes Cole because she likes (probably loves) him, not because he's a means to an end. He might be the end, I guess, and she is clinging onto this game to make herself feel better about it, to not feel too guilty. We all acknowledge she loves Max, but it could be dwarfed by Cole's.

I will say this to the crowd (myself somewhat including depending on my mood, lol) that says Max should have a come back – is it fair that Max could be too late in this? The whole Max should 'have his day in court' with Maggie concept, is it unfair if she doesn't accept her ring back? Damage is done, regardless if Max never really meant to let Maggie run off and do what she's done as a witness or orchestrator, or if Maggie did get the ball rolling by holding Jay's balls, everyone is different now.I'm just saying, this story can end all kinds of ways and it will make just as much sense to me.

TB=TH, I've always wondered about the Maggie Lawyer turn, also. It doesn't ring true to who she's been and certainly flies in the face of the “let's explore” mojo. It felt to be a knee-jerk reaction to her feeling set-up by Max to cheat with Cole at the Poirot. Or as a way to be with Cole at Harvard–to keep the triangle alive, so to speak. If nothing else, the dorm room scene in Uncovering showed how Maggie comes alive when she's being an artist. (The sketching scenes with Cole and Jay are astonishingly erotic–although maybe that says more about me than Maggie!).I also don't know if I'm on board with the 'Carole likes Cole more than Max” train. Max represents stability; Cole represents anything but. I read Cole's comments about Carol and him communicating as a way of yanking Maggie's chain; that doesn't feel like Carol's style, anyway. Anything she'd want to know about Maggie or want Maggie to hear, she'd tell Maggie herself.Great discussions!

2b2h i like how you think ..its like watching a pachinko machine..kind of the way I feel when trying to follow the trail of bread crumbs through fields of bread crumbs. “Oh look this crumb is more darker than the others follow it..but this one is lighter no no follow it” I blame KT for it all…lol.

Tee – Wow you're right about Maggie's creativity and what it brings out of her. I looked at her move to change her hair, and go the law school route to be a girl turning over a new leaf, but she is really good isn't she? Hard to picture her as a lawyer, but she's a natural at LSAT's apparently, she's just talented!Also, you're right that Carol wouldn't beat around the bush if she didn't like Max, but maybe she's warming up to Cole and so she hasn't settled into fully wanting her to be with him? Maybe this next book could reveal any change of heart?John – Yep, and you help facilitate these dark thoughts, instigator. KT started it though, agreed.

At barely out of teens early twenties she may respect her mom but she's probably not gonna march to her mom's drumbeat. The whole havaad thing may be just a ruse to get her off her back and to play with max s emotions. If she does go to havaad than she may be marching to someone's new beat whether it's her changing her own cadence or someone else's cadence is the question..i had 2 older sister by 18 they soo wanted to be out of the house and out from under mom's thumb that makes me think Maggie has changed her own cadence.

It's a 50/50 toss up.. but I'll go with max i think he just wants to do right by Maggie and if that means going against momma. He may opt for it although he may try and get Maggie to go along with momma. Cole I believe thinks like they do… momma and dada. So he be likely to go along with their ideas.

It's easy to see the influence these clips produce in the Maggie series. It's cool that you can specifically pinpoint the things that you are evoking and echoing.Any chance we might hear something about Happy Endings soon?

Ok. I see the influences from the clips above. Maybe I understand Maggie a bit more.I honestly just think she doesn’t even realize what’s happening.I’m still convinced that Cole’s motives are not inspired by love of any kind. He’s acted out of envy, desire and lust mostly.Max I’ve said enough about.The biggest problem here is that our actors are just so young.

Maggie – You think she has no idea? I think she's learned quite a bit. It's clear she has been convincing herself of a lot, but she has had more than a few pivotal turns for her character. She stood up to Jay by talking to his father, she knows about Max in the closet, knows there's a rift growing between them, and learned where the limits are when Max took her ring. In the moments before Max taking her ring though, it was interesting to see the contrast between their reactions to each other. Maggie, surprised but almost non-chalant in her passionate actions with Cole, didn't even stop her bounce showing no noticeable guilt, while Max, was pretty damn mad. It does lend itself to thinking that Maggie still doesn't know she's hurting Max, not that he has given her much indication until the ring, as I've said before.And I know I've leaned mostly the opposite with Cole than what you said, I concede that there is a possibility that you're completely right about his motives. I just haven't seen anything from his character that would prove to me he doesn't have a deep love of Maggie. I have a question based on an example of what I mean, how do you interpret Cole saying that he can't wait to see what Maggie accomplishes? That is not the musings of a person who sees only burning amber eyes and a slender frame, but a man who sees (or believes he wants to see, I'll concede) a woman's value and depth.Im curious what makes some so sure he doesn't love Maggie.

I don't doubt that he loves Maggie, but is the love he feels the love someone feels for his partner or the love someone feels for his family? Not really enough to go off of to make the call, other than the facts that he likes fucking her and he wants her to succeed in life. I'd say the easiest indicator for true affection is when you make sacrifices for someone. Cole hasn't done…anything, really, to this end. Think about it. He might love Maggie, maybe it's real love maybe it's the love for a sister, I can't say, but he hasn't actually sacrificed anything to make this relationship happen. Being around these people is already his life, he doesn't even have to change his day to day. It just fell onto his lap. He hasn't given anything up to make this work. It's not damning or anything but I didn't read these books and think, “Damn, that man sure loves Maggie.” It's more like he's an opportunist and who can blame him? Meanwhile Max is terrified, shitting his pants while he willingly allows her to explore this new side to her. That's unequivocally love.

@WA You make a good point about the sacrificing. But in love it's kind of relative right? Maggie sacrifices her virtue for Max S kink.Max sacrifices time with his girl so she can experience different sex partners. Even tho that plays to his kink until Cole. Then the sacrifice becomes much more acute. Cole sacrifice is having to share Maggie with Max. A situation he seems more than willing to eliminate. Also he's giving up all his other girls remember him saying he's gonna be exclusive with Maggie. Again relative sacrifice it's probably doesn't mean much to max if Cole is exclusive (does he even know) does Maggie really care if he's exclusive with her. But for Cole giving up on all that sex just for Maggie is probably a major step for him. Its important to try and flesh out how the partners feel about the others “sacrifice” whether it's like “omg Cole your gonna donate your kidney for me.” Or is she like “yea right exclusive my ass”. But Life altering to Cole giving up on being a hound dog probably feels like a major step.We been spending a lot of time with Cole and max but have we really discerned where Maggie's true feelings lie..does she even know how she feels.Hard to say whats what but well find out in the next book.

Sacrifices -This is an interesting argument, so WA, you're saying Cole hasn't really proven himself to be Maggie's lover since he has had the least amount of resistance. I think that's different than arguing whether Cole loves Maggie which you do concede above as well, sisterly love or otherwise, but it can certainly demonstrate his worthiness to have earned it. That matters a lot too, from an outsider perspective. It might not be fair to argue that point though, only because of course the stakes are higher for Max and Maggie, so Max has to accept the responsibility put upon him with everything that being with Maggie entails, like her parents (as I've said before), and has to suffer through the pain of combating his internal and socially prescribed values seeing his Maggie falling in love with another man. Cole gets to come into this without these responsibilities and without a preconception of relationship with Maggie from the start of the story. Cole didn't stand to lose anything except maybe his friendships, we'll see how that goes next book.As far as what Cole has sacrificed in this, I have thought about it in a roundabout way – John made the points I was thinking of, the fact that he is kind of playing a role, waiting to get tagged in (with subtle, sometimes less subtle, suggestions to do so throughout) to Maggie's love life, is some kind of sacrifice. He hasn't been aggressively trying to take Maggie away from Max with Max's knowledge, which you could argue is not a sacrifice in that he is not accepting all the responsibility for trying to win Maggie over. He is doing what he can to be helpful to his friends despite what has to be something eating at him inside – he's driven Max and Maggie all over New England, been Max's workout buddy, sat Max down to talk about the video he knew might draw ire, helping Maggie get into Harvard, and helped break Maggie up with Jay. Throughout this, he hasn't changed his responsibility to be there for Max and Maggie even though everyone is changing. That's a sacrifice of some kind too.His 'sacrificing' his reputation is sort of a silly argument as John and I both agree, but it is a change in behavior for someone, that's absolutely is a sacrifice right? That said, two weeks is not that hard for someone to remain exclusive to someone … so there's one more book … 🙂 And John, I think Maggie absolutely wants Cole to be exclusive to her, she's said or alluded to it in two separate occasions.For Max – repeating what I said above, you're absolutely right that he has had the most skin in this game among the men in the story, no question. That might be all that needs to be said for you, but I will say that he is also not taken on all of the sacrifices he should be. He failed to come clean about being in Jessie's closet even though he felt bad about it, couldn't get out of the armoire even though Maggie was hurting badly, put on a facade of someone who's totally into what's going on while he plans his revenge, and has allowed a thinly veiled persona of being a victim in this, even though everyone knows he's a co-conspirator, by not letting on that he hurts too much when she's with other men.Also, let's not forget, Max's sacrifice of seeing Maggie with other men comes with a portion of him that likes it, so how much of a sacrifice is that really?All I'm doing in the above is muddy the waters. Apparently, I can't allow anyone to continue until they acknowledge how muddy they are before proceeding, lol.

I'm not going to get into the actions of the characters; I know Max is a moron. Just going to be talking about sacrifice and love.If you think Max's dick getting hard is a fair exchange for witnessing his wife-to-be being seduced and taken from him then I've got a building I'd like to sell you. KT Morrison is brutally detailed in how she describes how tortured Max is. He's making a heavy sacrifice, no question.I'll concede that Cole has made a change in his behavior but I don't believe it to be a sacrifice. He wants to be exclusive with Maggie, that's the change. Everything else you mentioned he was already doing, already willing to do, and already committed to keep doing. Now that he's had a taste of that sweet, tight pussy, though, he changes his behavior in that he doesn't sleep around. It's preservative. He found something better and doesn't want to downgrade. No sacrifice in this. It's like the opposite of a sacrifice.The strongest evidence, for me, that Cole really loves Maggie is that he's willing to sever his friendship with Max in order to pursue her (an action you might not think he's taking, but I do). But we don't know what Cole's thinking. It could just be lust; he could just really, really like fucking her. He is described as a sex fiend after all. An important side-note: This story is only told through Max and Maggie's perspectives. We disagree on many things, primarily how I believe Cole is trying to steal Maggie and you don't. I believe this is in part because of how Maggie interprets Cole's actions as affection and Max interprets them as deception. Naturally this creates a rift between the readers. So we're missing Cole's perspective and we have to use two heavily flawed character's perspectives in order to determine something as difficult to describe as love. So I stick to my original opinion: I have no idea if Cole really loves Maggie but from what I've read, I don't see any redeeming qualities of love from Cole. Everything he's done can be spun into an act of selfishness and that makes it harder to believe that he loves her.

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